$ EE penalty for accident

jbucek · July 2005

Our organization is considering a mandatory policy which would require drivers of company vehicles to pay the company's deductible if they have an accident that is deemed their fault. Does anybody have any experience with such a program?

SMace · July 2005

I would doubt that this would fly. You should check your state FLSA laws. I would liken it to charging someone money if the had an OTJ injury that was their fault. You can't do that. You have to understand that people make mistakes. You can certainly discipline someone, but I doubt you can charge them money for it.

SMace · July 2005

I was checking something else out, so I looked up the law for you. I found it interesting that Michigan FLSA allows for comp time. I interpret that you can't do it. You, however, should make that decision for yourself. Anyway here's what it says:

Deductions

Employers may not withhold, deduct, or divert any part of an employee’s pay except for the following reasons:

¨ Requirements of state or federal law.

¨ Other legal deductions authorized in writing by employees — payroll savings, insurance, union dues, etc.

¨ Court-required deductions such as garnishments, child support payments, or debtors’ judgments.

Employers may not withhold the following from employees’ wages: bad checks from customers, improper use of credit cards by customers, customer “walk outs,” cash or register shortages, and damage or breakage costs.

With the exception of deductions required or expressly permitted by law or a collective-bargaining agreement, an employer may not deduct any amount from the wages of an employee without the full, free, and written consent of the employee obtained without fear of discharge for refusal to permit the deduction.

A deduction for the benefit of the employer, such as payroll savings and insurance, requires written consent from the employee for each wage payment subject to the deduction. The cumulative amount of the deductions may not reduce the gross wages paid to a rate less than Michigan’s minimum wage.

jbucek · July 2005

Thanks for your help. I understand the FLSA ramifications re: payroll deduction, but curious as to whether or not an organization can mandate payment (write me a check) or your fired. Essentially this is what our owners are wanting to do. Of course first all drivers will have to sign an agreement stating that they understand and will abide by new policy (or be terminated). Please understand I am not in favor of this policy change and am looking for a legal roadblock to stop this nonsense.

thanks again for your feedback and assistance.

Jeff Bucek

LivindonSouth · July 2005

Literally, I am sure you can do that. In your at-will relationship, if your state observes that, you may fire an employee for any reason or no reason at all (except an illegally discriminatory one).

Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.

SMace · July 2005

Here are the excerpts of what I posted that I think apply:

1. Employers may not withhold the following from employees’ wages: bad checks from customers, improper use of credit cards by customers, customer “walk outs,” cash or register shortages, and damage or breakage costs.

It says you cannot withhold damage. I think this would apply to charging them money for damage of a car.

2. With the exception of deductions required or expressly permitted by law or a collective-bargaining agreement, an employer may not deduct any amount from the wages of an employee without the full, free, and written consent of the employee obtained without fear of discharge for refusal to permit the deduction.

I interpret this to say that you can deduct payment for things other than what is permitted by law IF they sign a consent WITHOUT fear of termination and it does not bring their wages below minimum wage.

So I interpret the law to say you can try to do it, but you can't threaten termination. If they are stupid enough to sign it, good for you.

I'm not an attorney and this should not be construed as legal advice.

jbucek · July 2005

Points well taken. Thanks very much for your help.

jb

JM in ATL · July 2005

I think your efforts would be better spent providing defensive driving classes for your drivers if they are getting into that many accidents.

Charging them for damage to a vehicle that was caused by an accident is just wrong - unless they were DUI.

Maybe you can try positive reinforcement rather than bullying and intimidation to encourage good driving.

Bonus plans for accident free drivers. Gas cards, gift cards, recognition awards. Encourage them to want to do good and better, not punish them for doing bad.

Yes, it is frustrating and expensive - but does your employer even do driving record checks before putting someone behind the wheel?

jbucek · July 2005

haven't done driving checks to date except for OTR truck drivers. we are the 3rd largest nursery (plants not children) in the country and have lots of people driving on the farm, btwn farms, moving plants, moving people. this policy is a knee jerk reaction to an employee accidently hitting another employee's car in the parking lot. the hittee had min. insurance and our owner ended up buying the vehicle.

your points are well taken and in line with my personal philosophy of managing people.

thanks,

jb

LivindonSouth · July 2005

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-21-05 AT 09:29AM (CST)[/font][br][br]I don't equate withholding from one's paycheck and requiring them to pay the company money. If they were viewed the same, the law would state that. I would imagine that in the first instance, the law is meant to protect the employee who would have no control over the employer deducting from the check. In the second instance, there is no law since the employee has control over whether he pays the company. He can refuse. I don't advocate requiring the employee to pay the deductible; but, I do not think it would violate the law. It doesn't necessarily have to be illegal to be stupid.

Your emphasis should be on retaining good drivers and getting rid of bad ones. Discipline is the methodology to achieve the latter. Write him up or fire him for at-fault accidents. The deductible is not the point.

Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.

National Guard · July 2005

I don't quite follow your logic Don.

Yes, it's horrible to extort money from an ee but still Legal? This seams very similar to me to the farms/orchards who use migrant labor to make them pay for shoes, water, clothing/uniforms, tools, and whatever else they can think of to keep from paying them their wages. I always thought it WAS illegal?

LivindonSouth · July 2005

I wasn't advocating the practice nor making a moral judgement about it, so there was no logic utilized, other than to say I do not think it is illegal. Lots of things are wrong that are not illegal.

Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.

National Guard · July 2005

Yes, I did understand that you were not making moral judgement and you are not advocating it,
but, I still say you were using logic to arrive at a conclusion of it not being illegal and therefore legal. Wouldn't you want to find out for sure if it was illegal? But I also don't intend to get into a discussion that will go nowhere as this one probably will.x:D

LivindonSouth · July 2005

I think I said I don't 'think' it is illegal. I really am not concerned enough about it to research whether it is legal or not, since I would never do that to begin with. But, until someone cites a law prohibiting it, I will assume it is legal. Thank you for asking though.

Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.

HRLASS · July 2005

I think you would have trouble with making them pay the company deductible for preventable accidents for various reasons already stated, as well as calculating the percentage from the fleet you described (logistical details). We have a couple ways of dealing with this as we also have lots of crew and meter reader drivers.
Every preventable accident requires that the employee take a safe driving class - either offered through the company or by a vendor. Three preventable accidents (I believe in 5 years) and they're off the street and in almost all cases, out of a job. On the positive front, each department with fleet drivers has an annual goal of # of preventable accidents which is tied to their department's annual goals and their annual bonuses. Lowest accidents gives maximum points for bonus. There are three levels and if the department has more than the max employees get nothing.

marc · July 2005

It sounds like extortion.

SMace · July 2005

And there's something wrong with that? x}>

$ EE penalty for accident

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