Employee arriving too early

Forrister7 · July 2005

I have resolved this issue already but I'm curious if anyone else has had this problem and how it was handled. We are a small business with few policies. One employee started showing up half an hour before he's scheduled to begin work. He knows he will not be paid for this time. Then he started showing up 45 minutes early, then an hour, and finally an hour and a half early, at a time when I am the only other employee here. I decided this was inappropriate and told him so, and that there is no reason for him to be here so early, and that telling him this is for his own protection also. He doesn't do much during the pre-work hours he's here - uses the bathroom, sits around, etc. Has anyone else had to address the issue of an employee being on the premises too early? Am I overreacting by telling him not to be here until he's supposed to be working? I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Hunter1 · July 2005

No, you're not overreacting. He doesn't have to do much, but even if he 'putters around' sometimes, your business could be liable for overtime pay for the time he spends on your premises. You are absolutely correct in telling him not to come in early, and in disciplining him if he continues to do so.

LivindonSouth · July 2005

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-07-05 AT 08:02AM (CST)[/font][br][br]My imagination tends to run wild sometimes early in the morning. It's curious that you arrive almost two hours before anyone else does. Not knowing anything about the business, I'm wondering why you are there alone so early as well as wondering why he had eventually positioned himself there with you when nobody else was in the building. I will assume he is an hourly employee, but I don't know that; then the question is who lets him in the building and why is it not locked. If he has a key, take it away if he comes in early one more time. Anybody that arrives at work an hour and a half early, unless they work in HR, just to putter around, needs to get a life. Sounds spooky to me. Tell him to either stay home and watch Fox or hang out at the Texaco.

Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion and with the gentlest of intentions.

Forrister7 · July 2005

He is an hourly employee, and we are a medical office. Each employee has his/her own key to the office. He is kind of creepy, and definitely needs to get a life someplace other than here at work! Great idea to take away his key if necessary.

pork1 · July 2005

FORRISTER7: It is strange behavior for the norm; however, he could be an early riser and loves the work environment and would rather sit his extra time at the office/plant/work site, or whatever. There is nothing illegal about that and if you understabd his real intentions, then who knows he might also be a person on site that might help you in any given situation just because he is there.

Now, key is the classification of this employee as EXEMPT or NON-EXEMPT. A EXEMPT can be there and do work if he/she chooses or wait for the normal starting time for his/her position. The non-exempt is where there should be concern. Any work done by this individual on behalf of the company from answering the phone, sweeping, cleaning, organizing the work site, or whatever could mean that the "work time has started" and the individual must be paid of those times. If the company allows him to stick around or just hang out, that might be sufficient to defeat the company defense that the employee should not be paid for he was not authorized to be there and he/she was told several times but he just wanted to waste his time at the work site! I would not allow a non-exempt employee to "hang around"!

PORK

Hunter1 · July 2005

Excellent point on the exempt vs non-exempt classification. I had assumed he was non-exempt.

I've probably posted this before, but in a prior life, we had an hourly employee who showed up a couple of hours early, and stayed a couple hours late. He puttered around as a group leader, getting his assembly line in the best possible order. (He also punched in and out at the 'normal' times) He had no life other than work. We got into a disagreement with our union, and they reported us to wage and hour, and we ended up paying the guy 4 hours of OT per day for a couple of years. That put a quick end to employees being allowed to show up early for work!!

LivindonSouth · July 2005

Exempt or non-exempt; makes no difference as relates to the problem you posted. An employer can set core hours for either or both groups of employees. An exempt employee who decides to 'redefine' his core hours on his own should be told that his core hours are set for a reason. Unless he has management approval to abandon the core hours set for his position, he should be brought back in line. I figured the guy was 'sorta creepy' at the outset. Regardless of who might speculate what about his home life or love for sitting around the worksite, I would not hold out hope that he might be my savior in times of need. Keep him out of the building. If he shows up early again, his key should be taken away.

Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.

HRinFL · July 2005

I agree with Don and Hunter1. Keep this guy out of the building for your own peace of mind and for because of the liability associated with the probability that he is doing something that could be viewed as work without being on the clock.

If the guy is an early riser and does not like to sit at the house, he should go get breakfast somewhere, have a cup of coffee, and read the paper. Not come to work and just "hang out." Truth be told, if you ever made him upset, he would all and report you to the DOL. I bet he knows if he ever performed work off the clock!

HRLASS · July 2005

My first problem is why does "everyone" have a key? This seems like a liability.
In a place I worked several years ago we had a non-exempt employee with a key who would come in to do some extra "work" on the weekend. Then one weekend I showed up to do some extra work. She was on the phone for hours with family and friends, read magazines, made copies, etc. We did not have a timeclock, but reported hours on the "honor" system. I reported her to management and that stopped.
About the same time we were burglarized - we thought by a former employee, but could never prove it.
We changed the locks and issued new keys on a restricted basis. Too much liability.

Rockie · July 2005

I agree with the other posters that he could soak you for overtime and who would Wage & Hour believe? Better to keep him out of the office outside of work hours than to take this chance.

If he is "creepy" all the better to keep him out of the office. You don't know what he's doing before the rest of you get there. (I sure wouldn't drink the coffee if he made it!).

marc · July 2005

Sighhhh, --- I remember the good old days.

You know, back in the day when showing up early meant you were eager to work and wanted the people you worked for to see that you could be counted on. This used to be a sign that showed you thought the job important.

It was one of those things you did when you were trying to get ahead, when you were showing a strong work ethic. That above and beyond the call of duty was normal for you.

As Bob said, "...the times they are a changing."

Crout · July 2005

I agree marc, but as the poster stated, the EE just sits around not doing much of anything. I think that would have been suspicious even back in the "old days."

LivindonSouth · July 2005

Ah, recollection of the old days. Marc mentioned 'Bob'. I remember the times in 'the old days' when, after listening to 'Bob', it seemed we all just sat around doing nothing for extended periods of time, for days at a time for all I know. Then we got the munchies. I was always the one elected to fry oysters.

Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.

National Guard · July 2005

I used to work at a place that felt the same way marc. There were several older employees who showed up early and read the paper, went to the bathroom, got themselves prepared for the work day so that exactly the second the clock struck 8:00 they were ready and working at their desks!! This was allways viewed as a good thing as opposed to the younger generation who rushes in the door at 90mph at exaclty 8:04am, then takes 20 or more minutes getting their first cup of coffee, chit chatting and so on. Only becoming a productive ee at about 9:00 am.!!!

marc · July 2005

I hate to say bye to those types of things, but in this day and age, if someone is making you feel creepy, those are not instincts to ignore.

Almost every other day there is an Amber alert, a family murdered in their sleep, the Aruba situation getting fuzzier and fuzzier, and of course, terrorism is alive and well all over the world.

Enough lament!

Keep breathing, stay focused, effect what you can in the best ways possible, that's my mantra for the day.

LivindonSouth · July 2005

'ere..............

Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.

lnelson · July 2005

We had this problem with multiple ees so much so that we added it to our ee handbook.
It states that ees shall be off the premisies within 30 minutes prior and after working hours.

Many reasons for this was they would punch in 1 hr early then go and sit in their car until their scheduled work time or they would stay after work with their buddies. Anyone who is here when they are not scheduled fall under our disciplinary action.

LivindonSouth · July 2005

Finally, someone from the West Coast who is willing to kick a**.

Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.

mushroomHR · July 2005

After reading all of these replies, I must ask--how soon before a shift starts should employees be allowed in the building? 15 minutes? a half hour? What is appropriate?

LivindonSouth · July 2005

I think it depends on the industry, the setting, the number of employees, the location of the building in terms of parking, etc. In our case, manufacturing, we do not allow off-shift employees in the building prior to 10 minutes before shift start. We find that if we do, there's too much visitation and interruption of on-shift employees, new arrivals are walking through the facility to various clocking machines and, in general, it causes down time and lost productivity for everyone. There are no plusses to our letting them in the work area early.

If it were an office setting, I'd vote for allowing the workforce in as early as 30 minutes, but conditioned on their going to the breakroom, not the work area.

Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.

Forrister7 · July 2005

As usual, everyone's feedback on this subject have been insightful and invaluable.
Now, hypothetically, if this employee was injured here in the office prior to having officially started work some morning, would he be eligible for Worker's Comp? Could this be another reason for an off-the-clock employee to not be allowed on the premises before starting his shift?

pork1 · July 2005

Forrister7: Good point/? If the accident with injury happened on company property and NOT in the act of working or in preparation for work, the company could be liable for the medical cost and any negligents that might be dreamed up by an injury attorney. I do not believe, it would be covered by the W/C out-right. MedicaL SHOULD BE TREATMENT WOULD BE COVERED BY THE EE/ER MEDICAL PLAN. But, what if the ee is not covered by the medical plan, because the ee is not a subscriber. I am covered by my own medical plan and not the companies' plan, I would fall into this category. I guess my bloody fingers for typing my responses to HRhero before the majical hour of 8:00AM, would not count as work.

Everyone have a beautiful Blessed day. The Lord answered our prayers in protecting the people in the path of "Dennis". Dennis was a fast mover and that help to limit the danger and damage.

PORK

LivindonSouth · July 2005

I suppose that is just another of the good reasons to not have people on site or in the work areas prior to it being necessary. I have to differ with PorK, who lives in my state. If an employee were in the building or even coming into the building, or leaving, even if not clocked in, in this state it would definately be workers' comp covered. We have a production worker on restricted duty as we speak, in the office, typing and handling phones. She slipped leaving the front lot into the parking lot last year and shattered her ankle. She's due for her second surgery soon and comp is eating our lunch, so we called her back in on restricted duty. Even though she was clocked out, off shift, out of the building and I argued the point with corporate attorneys and our state's comp authorities, I was told that had it not been for her job she would not have been injured and it was ruled to be comp.

However, check with your state comp commission since each is state specific and could vary.

Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.

marc · July 2005

That is also the way I understand it. In Nevada, if they are on company premises on the way to work, or on the way from work, they are covered under WC. If it is a third party lot, or on the public streets, they are not covered.

As I get it, coverage begins on the company's property line in the act of coming to work and ends on the property line in the act of leaving work.

I don't think the WC aspect of this situation should play into it. Following that logic will lead you into a beaurocratic hell trying to parse the moments between work and not-work and the proximity of the time-clock(s).

pork1 · July 2005

Don & MARC: Would you not be able to sort through the coming to, then wasting time on the property, prior to going to work, as a seperating "fact of matter" of not at work, and/or the going home?

I would be concerned for the liability and potential damages with it not on W/C. The company is certainly better off under W/C, it is the best course of action, just to be able to limit the potential damages for an accident/injury.

PORK

LivindonSouth · July 2005

I lost this discussion with the Mississippi Workers' Compensation Commission attorneys as well as with our own corporate attorneys and comp technicians. I did not want this accident on our comp charts. It ran our costs up over $50k by the time is is over, counted against our lost time accidents and was just another nail in the coffin of 'out the roof' comp costs. It might have hidden itself better in the group insurance scheme of things.

Whether the ee is wasting time before or after their shift I suppose could be argued; but, in this case, she worked ten hours, punched out, left the building, went down some concrete steps and slipped on a wet step crushing her ankle. I've had to learn something new about MS comp with this one.

Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.

marc · July 2005

In our little bitty shop, the "sorting through" of who is in the building at work versus who is just hanging around waiting for shift to start, would not be as big an issue as it would for sizeable companies.

It could be complicated for us because so many of our program delivery staff have very flexible schedules based on client needs and certain program requirements.

Lots of self-starters are needed to do most of our programs - their main supervisor also has a varied schedule and performs lots of direct services off site. In some cases, it could be several days before they actually lay eyes on one another. Relying instead on email and cell phone to communicate and solve problems.

So if Mary Lou was in early, just hanging around, logged onto the internet to check the news, it would be likely that no-one, besides her immediate supervisor, would know of her circumstance.

That sort of situation is what I had in mind about setting up the kind of system necessary to effectively monitor the situation. Seems like it would be creating beaurocracy that I certainly don't have time to police, and it would likely devolve to me.

Plus, being in an office environment - with 7 remote offices, some of which are single EE offices, the monitoring and logistics around same seem to be excessive cost/time for little benefit.

I say little benefit, because the liabilities around accidents are very small in our office environments. There are more issues with slip and fall in the parking lots, and those are ice and snow related more than anything else, and are themselves rare.

All of that is probably more than anyone wanted to know, but that was my thought process.x:-8

Employee arriving too early

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