Help What did I do Wrong?

Today I was notified by my supervisor that I as HR have overstepped my authority by listening to the employee complaints & problems. To explain this better, my agency has an open door policy which outlines the chain of command (i.e start with supervisor, then move up the ladder. etc. etc.). Well I was told that I failed to follow the chain of command by listening to the employees problems.

I explained to management that I do let the employee know that they must follow the chain of command when they have a work related problem. But I still listen to the problem. I even go on to explain to the employee that even if they tell me but state that they don't want to go talk to their supervisor that I will let the supervisor know that they came to see me about a work related problem. So it would be easier if they talk with their supervisor first.

But I don't cut them off because I need to listen to what the problem is to decide if it something I should handle. Management has told me that when an employee comes to my office that before they even open their mouth I should start my little speech about the chain of command.

Some people just want to come show me pictures of their babies or talk about problems they might be having in school etc. The problem is that the employees will not talk to management at all and I do mean at all. Annualy I conduct an employee survey and every year the employees talk about how management is unapproachable. I have notified management of this but they don't seem to care.

But here's the catch. Management can come into the office and tell me about the problems they are having on the job and they have supervisors that they report to also. They can come in and tell me about the divorces etc. and I am not supposed to stop them and tell them I can't help them and they need to go speak with their supervisor. When I mentioned this to them I was told its different because they are management.

I'm I the only one experiencing this at work? Any advice you can give me on this matter would be much appreciated. Also if your wondering my job description does allow me to counsel the employees on work related issues, etc. Go figure!

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Comments

  • 36 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • If the employees won't talk to management and can't talk to you, they will talk to someone. The someone may be a union representative, the EEOC or others who WILL listen. If management doesn't understand this and you are unable to educate them, find a better job. I don't know how much educating you have tried. If you have tried several times and it isn't working, dust off your resume and take your skills somewhere where they are appreciated.
  • Something fishy is going on here. Who is your superivsor - what does he or she do? Was a specific incident cited where you "over stepped" your bounds?

  • I must be in a crappy mood today but I have to ask my self what management doesn't want you hearing. Talking to employees? Thats part of what HR does, especially when the employee feels he or she can not approach the supervisor. Imagine how your employees would feel if they they had no one to turn to.

    Separating management from non-management like this is such a kiss of death. If you are not in a union environment, this is a sure way to pave the way for local such and such to break down the door.
  • I agree with rad. Listening to employees is part and parcel of the many responsibilities in the HR field. As Gillian said, if they won't talk to US, they will talk to SOMEONE and it's usually an administrative agency or a lawyer.

    I suggest your managerial staff get a clue as to how dysfunctional their attitudes and behavior are and might even suggest you see if you can find a psychologist who makes house calls.

    Good luck. Nice to know there's a company out there whose managers are more clueless than mine. x;-)
  • In my humble opinion, I think that "management" has little confidence in you and has targeted you as one who is stirring up employees. They feel they have evidence, right or wrong, that employees are having conversations with you and you are encouraging employees to continue bringing issues to you that should be handled otherwise. You work in an agency, public I assume, and things are quite different in that world from private business and industry. They have either overheard or have been told that employee disgruntlement at the agency is due in part to your chatting with employees and keeping the natives restless and agitated. You aren't viewed by management as one of their 'team players' and you are getting a vote of no-confidence. If you want to salvage your job at the agency, you should quickly reverse the things that send these signals to managers and others in the company. It's impossible to do a permanent behavioral 180, so the best advice may indeed be to polish up the resume.



    (note: This is only one person's opinion, but it's mine. It is not intended to offend anyone. It's based solely on what I infer from the posted question. It could be wrong or it could be right. If you have an opinion different from mine, voice it rather than challenging mine.)
  • The answer to your question is that you haven't done anything wrong. The problem is that you want to run a HR office and your management sees HR as clerks rather than business partners. You have to either live with that, and hope you can change some attitudes over time, or get out and try to find an organization that lives in the 21st century.
  • Hi all thanks for the words of wisdom. I work for a non-profit organization. I report to the CFO who reports to the CEO. I didn't think I did anything wrong except for listen. I always refer the employees back to their supervisors (always). But they won't go.

    There are some other issues here that I'm sure you all can figure out. I'm 20 years younger than my boss. I was the first HR person this agency has had. Previous person was a social worker. They actually had her sitting with the employees conducting HR business. Needless to say nothing was confidential. In other words the CFO and the CEO pretty much told her what they wanted her to do when disciplining employees.

    When I came on board I requested an office and although I was there to support and it took me two years to get the staff to trust me. I mean any time I called to speak to an employee they would always ask me if they were in trouble. I would only be calling them about their benefits, etc.

    But yes the resume is being sent out daily. Thank you all for responding. I appreciate it very much!




  • Yep, Don hit the nail right on the head. Someone has to be blamed for the restless natives. Since you seem to be the center of this fuss, whammmmo, you are guilty.

    I guess you can try to educate your supervisor, but I doubt it. His primary purpose in life is to NOT rock the boat. Kinda like mushroom management.
  • I also work for a non-profit. The big problem in the non-profit world is that credentials are everything, and ability is nothing. The only thing you need to run a Mental Health division is a Master's or Ph.D. in counseling or clinical psychology....notice I didn't say experience in supervision, or expertise in HR, or any other kinds of education that would allow you to succeed in business. And as I'm sure you know, non-profits ARE in business. I have often sat in meetings and wondered to myself how people could be so smart on paper and so stupid in practice.
  • Cinderella I don't know what you mean by fishy but yes you are correct there are a lot of fishy things going on here. The only incident I can bring to light is that we have had another employee terminate in our billing department. At the exit interview this employee notified me of the problems she had in that department. She provided me with the same information the other two terminating employees did. I took the information from the exit interview along with first hand information that I had witnessed myself and sent a long email to both the CFO and the CEO. Why email? Because I work out of two office and would not have seen the CFO and the CEO face to face for another week and I didn't want to wait.

    The email stated that now that we are in fact hiring a 4th person in less than one year we really should take a look at some of the problems in the billing department. I don't know maybe I overstepped my boundaries by sending it by email. Yes that could be it.

    Well needless to say the CEO and CFO had to take action now. But my efforts ended making them angry at me. To make a long story short I was told I was being put on a 30-day PIP (smile) for overstepping the boundaries of my position. Yes its true!!!!

    I think they felt I was trying to take control over the situation, when in fact I thought I was trying to help by at least giving them documentation. Now I've been here 3 years and we have trying to clean department up for all three of those years. The employee complaints have been brought to managements attention before and quick fixes have taken place that last about a week and then its back to business as normal.

    Just a note the supervisor of the billing department is the CFO who is my direct boss. This is a person who tells me almost daily that she has 15 years experience in HR (smile).

    Sorry this is so long. I had lots to say. Finally I did pass the PIP (document) along to attorney for review and they laugh.
  • What actually is the problem? Falification of company records? Harassment? Employee bickering?

    What was the quick fix? Some more info would help us answer your questions?
  • Sounds like they hired an HR person because they thought it was a good idea at the time, but God forbid they let you do your JOB. CFO sounds like she doesn't like being told bad news and is now shooting the messanger. This is a dysfunctional company that obviously does NOT value you - get out now. Personally, I wouldn't worry about a lawyer (unless there is something else going on that you haven't mentioned). I would just do a really thorough job search and once you find something put in your two weeks and smile and wave on your way out the door.
  • Cinderella and all

    Thanks for the words of encouragement and advice. It is very much appreciated.
  • You've stepped into the extremely sensitive area where it is perceived that you are repriminding your boss (CFO), as well as questioning their management abilities. An uncomfortable place we often find ourselves in with HR. By including the CEO, I'm sure your boss, the CFO took that as a direct threat, and felt they had not had an opportunity to comfront or correct the problem.
    Yes, it does sound as if your agencies has some real issues, and yes, it sounds as if you have probably been accurate in identifying where they are stemming from.
    If you reported directly to the CEO your actions would have been appropriate.
    Hindsight, using some politics, go to the CFO w/ the issue and a solution and let them be the hero and give her the opportunity of presenting it to the CEO.
    Good luck
  • KCMO hit the nail on the head. The CFO perceived your email as a reprimand because you included the CEO. I would not discuss problems in my department with the president of our company unless I was getting nowhere with my boss. You damaged any credibility you had and I don't think your going to get it back. The CFO doesn't trust you anymore and I'm not sure I blame him.
  • I was going to edit my post but it has gone into hyperspace. I agree with KCMO on everything except going to the CEO only. In my opinion you should have gone to the CFO only.
  • SMace thank you for your reply. But I think maybe I didn't explain something correctly in the other post. I mentioned that some quick fixes were done. This was done by the CFO whom I went to at the start of my employment 3 years ago and at least on 5 other documented occassions after. The CFO even approached me about some of the problems asking for suggestions. Trust me many discussion were held on this issue. But again quick fixes took place that did not last long at all.

    So I did follow the chain of command from start to finish. When I emailed the CEO and the CFO it was after the 3rd person terminated and the situation was totally out of hand. At the point since the chain of command had been followed I had no other choice but to take it up the next step.

    Also I was told by the CFO that her and the CEO have no secrets. So even if I went to the CFO like I had done in the past the CEO was aware of the situation.

    Again, thank you all for your help. I look forward to talking with you again.
  • Again I ask, what is the "situation" that has you in hot water? What possibly can be so dreadful that you took action and received a warning?
  • It looks like your in a situation that you can't fix unless the CFO goes bye-bye. Good luck on finding a better situation. I'm lucky to have a good boss and I hope you either find one or become the boss.
  • You have some great responses from the forumaniacs. All I have to add is an observation that a "Chain of Command" and an "Open Door Policy" are almost mutually exclusive. We try to honor chain of command here for most situations, however, we do have the open door policy for those instances where chain of command is not the right avenue - such as harassment complaints against the immediate supervisor.

    Since you found out some of your information through exit interviews and I assume you are tasked with this function, how could you be overstepping your bounds?

    One of the problems with an open door policy is that EEs will often use it as an excuse to enlist others to fight their battles. Chain of command is usually the right way to go, but there is a valid purpose to just having someone with whom to vent. Just being able to verbalize issues often will help get them in perspective, relieve the pressure and thereby improve the work environment.
  • I think one problem is that you don't understand that you are part of management. You consistently refer to three groups......management, the employees and HR. HR is part of the management team.

    In some organizations, the leader of HR is a VP under the CEO. In other organizations, the leader of HR is middle manager.......but always part of management.

    Too often, HR folks think they are the middle men between management and the troops. You are a manager responsible for the smooth operation of the labor force and compliance with labor laws.

    I think the sooner you see yourself as a manager and act accordingly you will be treated as a partner by the other managers.
  • Raantz (?) You asked again what I did to get into hot water and as I explained. I listened to the employees problems. Even though I would refer them back to their supervisor. I still listened and that has created a problem.

    Shawn: I do consider myself a manager, and yes you are correct the CEO & CFO do not. So matter how hard I try to be a part of management top management has to want the same thing.

    Thanks!
  • Why are the employees leaving? What were the quick fixes? What is/was the situation? Listening to employee problems is NOT what got you into hot water.
  • What are the issues? If it is harassment or anything of the like that is happening between the employee and their supervisor, then they would not be able to follow the chain of command but would need to go to HR directly.

    We also have the chain of command and open door policy. If they employee is having trouble, they are encouraged to go to their supervisor, or their supervisor's supervisor to try to resolve the issue. However, in the event of discrimination, sexual harassment, etc., the employee has the right to come directly to HR.

    But if the employee has TRIED to talk to their supevisor and did not get any results or it resulted in only a temporary change, the employee has the right to talk to HR.

    But you mentioned that people come to your office and talk about non-work related issues. Is it possible that their chit-chatting with you is causing delays in productivity - both yours and theirs???

    Just my thoughts and opinion.

    LFernandes
  • YRUNVUS: Please, the question has been gently asked about 5 or 6 times. What are the issues? As Ritaanz said, simply listening to the problems of employees could not be problematic. Now, if you launched a memorandum to the CEO regarding what you perceived as mismanagement of the department supervised by your boss, the CFO, THAT'S THE PROBLEM. You riled her and she should be riled. You mishandled it terribly if that is the situation. If not, you need to correct the perception because it's fairly widespread. x:-) You've been a Forum participant quite long enough to know that participants need some tough questions answered with specifics in order to give meaningful, but most of all, helpful, answers. People simply telling you that you're not being appreciated or agreeing with you that you aren't treated well is not going to be really productive. This is just my opinion and is not meant to offend any person or persons. I just tend to get to the point, although this time it's after watching other try numerous times. Thanks.
  • Wheeeeewwwwwww. Finally, someone made the point. Each time yrunrvs (Does that stand for "Why are you nervous"?)posted, the circumstances were a little different. Thanks bunches Don. x:*
  • Raatz & Dond

    As I explained to you on several other post. If you liked me to say I yelled, kicked or assaulted any one, sorry didn't do that. If you like me to say that I didn't follow the chain of command from start of employment to the finale email tht started this sorry can't do that either. Let me say this again, I'm in what you call hot water because and I'll type this just how it is written on my PIP. EVEN THOUGH YOU NOTIFIED THE COMPLAINING EMPLOYEE THAT YOU HAD NO AUTHORITY TO ASSIST THEM IN SOLVING THEIR PROBLEM, YOU STILL LISTENED TO THEIR PROBLEM.

    Also I wish it were a time management issue, its not. I'm doing my work and assisting other departments. I'm doing my job per the policies, I'm doing my job per the State policies etc.

    Sorry guys for bringing this situation to the forum. I know I should have done something major to be in hot water. But I'm quoting from their documentation, not mine.




  • This is my last stab at it. WHY ARE PEOPLE LEAVING YOUR COMPANY???? WHAT QUICK FIX WAS USED???

    Amen.
  • My turn - yrunrvs - what everyone wants to know is:
    What did the employee tell you during the exit interview?

    What were the previous issues in the billing department that you had discussed several times with the CFO?

    What were the "quick fixes" that never really worked?

    There has to be a very good reason that they got so upset that you sent an email regarding employee concerns. In the normal world of HR, it's nonsensical. I know I've aggravated many a manager by bringing up issues they'd rather not deal with, but it would certainly never result in my being disciplined for it. So, we need a little more info, or else we'll all just keep agreeing that your CFO and CEO are crazy and you need to find a new job.
  • ....or that we can't get the whole story no matter how valiantly we try.
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