Termination Meeting

cali_chavs · August 2003

Employee abruptly left termination meeting (while I was still speaking about the usual issues), hurried to their desk to collect personal items, and left the premises. The reason for termination was not given due to the employee's abrupt departure. The employee was trying to get out of that room ASAP and was extremely upset. Employee did make the comment that they were not surprised (upon entering the room and seeing HR and the Supervisor waiting) and had seen this coming for weeks. Termination is due to unsatisfactory performance. Employee has an extremely thick file, which contains signed performance warnings and other documentation. It is appropriate to convey the reason for termination in the meeting. Should I send a letter containing the reason (brief) or just leave it alone, since they voluntarily took off before we had a chance to communicate it?

Sunny · August 2003

I would certainly document what happened for your own records. I think, if it were me, I would also send a letter to the employee stating the reason for termination and outlining any outstanding or essential matters such as length of insurance coverage, 401(k) withdrawal, etc. I usually give employees a written recap of any termination meetings - even if they don't run out they are usually too upset to retain details.

Don D · August 2003

If it is not your normal practice to mail or give reasons for termination in writing, I would not make an exception and do it. What's to be gained? The UI decision will not rest on what the claimant said you said. It will rest on testimony and the documented evidence you produce. I would just make a note in the file as to what happened and have the supervisor initial it as well. If ANYONE (EEOC, NLRB, UI, Attorney, Your boss) should question why you terminated him and require you to state what you told him, you can reply, "It is our practice to hold separation conferences, during which the ee being separated is told the reasons. In this particular case, less than a minute into the conference, the ee stood up and bolted out of the room, ending the meeting. It is not our practice to send termination letters. Therefore the file speaks for itself."

Balloonman · August 2003

Don,
Well said.
My $0.02 worth.
DJ The Balloonman

dmd · August 2003

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 08-08-03 AT 09:58AM (CST)[/font][p]I, too, agree that Don's reply is well said. FYI: Here in MN, and 10 other states (CA, DE, IN, KS, MO, MT, NE, NV, TX and WA) employers are required to provide a service letter to terminated employees, usually only upon request. Generally, they must include dates employed, ending wages, position title and reason for leaving. As always, the truthful reason for termination must be provided to the ee.

ray a · August 2003

As usual, I agree with Don, too. Last winter we had a lay off of around 30 people. During one termination interview it was obvious the woman was not hearing a word I was saying - she was too busy fighting the tears. Three days later, she called me after she had composed herself and asked me to review what I had said. I did so making sure she understood.

Did you have a witness with you during the termination interview? It is good to have another person with you to vouch for what transpires. If so, get them to give you a written statement.

System · August 2003

To DMD:

I'm not familiar with a Texas law requiring a letter of service. Can you specify where you got this info?

Thks

Karla Shugart · August 2003

sher, I heard about these laws not long ago. I think they are called "service letter" laws. In Washington we are trying to argue (I believe a case is currently in the courts) that these laws do not apply to government employees (I'm at a public university) who are not covered by our civil service laws. I found this web site:
[url]http://www.hrtools.com/pops/P98_05_8620_TX.asp[/url]

Karla

dmd · August 2003

To sher, TX:

I originally found the info on service letters on the SHRM website, but it has since been pulled due to "some inconsistencies". Upon further research and a live chat with one of their customer service reps., we searched the CCH HR database for TX law and found "A corporation, company or individual may give, on application from a discharged employee or a person desiring to employ the employee, a written truthful statement for the reason for the discharge. The statement may not be used as the cause for a civil or criminal action for libel against the person who furnishes the statement (Sec. 52.031)"

Hope this helps!

Brad Forrister · August 2003

I don't think that's the actual statutory language. The full statute is an anti-blacklist law. The portion referenced by CCH *allows* a company to send a discharge letter without it being considered blacklisting, and it gives the letter an immunity from libel actions.

By the way, you can find the statute behind the password on hrhero.com.

Brad Forrister
Director of Publishing
M. Lee Smith Publishers

lee2 · August 2003

Agree with all that has been said and would add another element.
Have had a similar situation occur a few times and have told the employee who was walking out that - if you leave this meeting before we are finished you will be terminated for insubordination. Usually works.

cebudragonlady · August 2003

lee2:

You mean to say that if an employee is called to a termination meeting
and you already have a reason ready - that if the employee walks out, you will "switch" reasons to make it insubordination?

By the time the meeting has been started, the decision has already been made to fire - and techically, the person is an ex-employee for all practical purposes...so how can an ex-employee be guilty of insubordination AFTER the decsion to fire has been made ?

Even if the employee walks..stick with your original reason.

Chari

mwild31 · August 2003

I agree with cebudragonlady - stick to the original reason.

mwild31 · August 2003

Document what happened. Send information about benefits - only. When the unemployment paperwork arrives - fill it out stating the reason for termination & be prepared to appeal if necessary. In WA, you have to provide a letter if the employee requests one, stating the reason for termination (which you keep very simple and to the fact - I like to reference a policy that was violated or how a training/coaching plan was not followed - works well at the UI appeal meetings). As long as the employee is not violent and is escorted out of the building by a supervisor, I don't mind if they want to leave the meeting abruptly.

RT2 · August 2003

I'm interested in the reasons for not writing the employee. My feeling would be if you wrote her, documenting what happened at the meeting and giving a brief explanation of the reasons for termination (for us, term. after a year has to be for cause, so it is/should be pretty well documented and supported before the meeting) and she did not immediately write back or call to say "that's not what happened", it would tend to support your version of things if a year later she files a complaint saying you sexually harassed her in the termination meeting.

Don D · August 2003

The only ultimate need I have ever found letters of termination to serve is the meeting of a union requirement that the ee and union be advised in writing. If there is no state law (as in our case) I do not see that such a letter would ever meet the needs of the EMPLOYER, and that's whose needs I'm obligated to meet. Before somebody jumps me, I am not advocating 'shifting reasons' at all. But, a letter of termination will often not meet all the evidence revealed in a thorough presentation of the personnel file at a hearing. The file typically will reveal a conglomeration of events leading to termination and where a hearing officer might find reason to rule that they conflict with the written reason, he may not allow them. The letter may serve to meet some perceived immediate need of the terminated employee or her/his attorney but that's not my concern at all. Letters box you in to a tight corner, from which a judge or hearing officer likely will not allow you to stray.

mwild31 · August 2003

Okay - this sounds a little harsh - but I have two reasons why I wouldn't send a letter unless I received the request from the employee:

1. I have better things to do than compose a letter, unnecessarily, to someone who has been terminated. When someone is terminated from my company they either a)knew it was coming because the coaching plan wasn't working and/or b)they violated one of our policies that led to misconduct.

2. Once an employee stops working for our company - especially if they have been terminated, other than legal issues, I stop caring. I have too many employees that are still working here that need my attention.

Termination Meeting

Comments