Probation Dilemma--Help!!

HRQuest · April 2003

Recently our HR shop has been debating how we want to apply a probationary period going forward for our new hires. Today we apply a 90 day probationary period across the board for all new hires, exempt and non-exempt. Since our it takes longer than 90 days in many cases to evaluate the proficiency of our exempt professional hires, we are thinking about extending the probationary period from 90 to 120 or more for exempts and leaving non-exempts at 90 days.

Does anybody have any experience with differing probationary periods for exempt and non-exempt employees, and if so how is it working? I'd also be interested in just knowing how long your probationary periods are.

kcovalt · April 2003

I work in Utah, which is an "at will" state. We do not have a probationary period. The feeling was that once the ee successfully completed the 90 days, the ee was guaranteed a permanent position. We do a review after 90 days, but we always maintain the option of terminating employment with or without cause. So far, this has worked well for us.

sobekneferu · April 2003

We have a four month orientation period for our non-exempt employees, and a six-month orientation period for exempt employees, specifically for the reasons you described above. This usually works out well, although since we don't allow employees access to their leave time during this period, exempt staff find it really hard to wait six months to take a day off, show up sick when they should be home, etc. We are investigating a new policy that would give new employees a certain number of days they could use within their orientation period to provide for those situations. Otherwise, it works out well. Four months gives us just a little extra time to see how the non-exempt people work out.

Sobek

jimlegal · April 2003

Our company is based in Texas an "at will" employment state. Our probation period is six (6) months. We chose six (6) months after review employment practices in the western United States, most specifically Nevada. We found routinely companies in Nevada would hire a person on a temp to perm basis, using three (3) months of temp time, then start three (3) months of employment all of which is considered probation time. Speaking with one of the Nevada employers, they indicated that six (6) months really worked well for them and by using the split 3 & 3 system, saves them money on benefits, since NO benefits are received until after the probation period. Although we have a six (6) month probation period some benefits start immediately, the remaining benefits start at the end of the probation period. Hope you find these thoughts helpful.

Leslie · April 2003

We had a three month probation for exempt and non, then moved it to six. It seemed entirely too long - all benefits kicked in on the first of the month after three months of employment, but the employee was still "vying" - if you will - for their job. They accrued vacation and sick time, but weren't allowed to use it until after six months.

In October of last year, we changed policy back to three months. If we are still unsure after three months if an employee will make it or not, our policy allows for a thirty day extension. That's it. You then have to make the call.

maryfmurray · April 2003

Our agency is based in New Hampshire and is an "at will" employment state also. We have a 90 day interim orientation period for exempt and non exempt employees with an option to continue for another 6 months. In some cases, we may continue the orientation process up to one year. We found that 90 days in some instances was not enough time for someone to be trained in their positions so we decided to extend the orientation to 6 months but we did not want to prevent them from using their vacation time. On the other side of the coin, you have the employee who is not performing and should not be allowed to use their vacation time and we have created a form that covers this.
If anyone would like to see how we did this please email me and I'll be happy to send you a copy.

Mentel · April 2003

I work out of 'at-will' Wisconsin. We eliminated the referece to probationary period or orientation period in our personel policy manual. This was done on advice of attorney since it can imply a contract. Our benefits start on the first day of employment, so they were never tied to probation. We do performance evaluations after six months. If someone is not making it, we let them go ASAP, even before the six months are over.

WOCO Frank · April 2003

We also have eliminated probationary periods. To my knowledge, in an at-will state, there is nothing positive that can come from it, and a lot of negative.

Crout · April 2003

We go 4 months for Union, and 6 months for non-union.

Zanne · April 2003

We are in Missouri and have a 90 day "orientation" period. The employee receives a 30, 60 and 90 day evaluation. At any given time - if they are not performing to what we consider to be the "curve", they are out of here.

Our benefits start with day 1.

Zanne

AprilShowers · April 2003

Just a little off subject, but I thought the term "probationary" period was a thing of the past becuase of the negative connotation with the word "probation". (Avoiding jail time comes to mind)

We use "initial employment period" and I noticed some of you use "orientation" period as well to avoid the "probation" of good employees

You might want to think about changing your terminology.

April

Don D · April 2003

>Just a little off subject, but I thought the term "probationary"
>period was a thing of the past becuase of the negative connotation
>with the word "probation". (Avoiding jail time comes to mind)

In the employment context, probation is not necessarily 'a thing of the past'. It may, however, be a consideration among politically correct thinkers, of which I am not one. Probation, in terms of an initial employment period, according to Webster's, comes way before 'convicted offender probation'. It's preferred meanings are defined as 'critical evaluation and examination', 'a period of testing and trial to ascertain fitness for a job', and even 'a newly admitted student nurse whose fitness is being tested during a trial period'.

The problem I DO have with using the term probation or trial period or initial period or any of the other magic words is that all of them seem to suggest that some right to the job will exist once the employee passes through the mystical period. I have the same problem with the word 'permanent'. Talk about connotations!

AprilShowers · April 2003

>In the employment context, probation is not necessarily 'a thing of
>the past'. It may, however, be a consideration among politically
>correct thinkers, of which I am not one. Probation, in terms of an
>initial employment period, according to Webster's, comes way before
>'convicted offender probation'. It's preferred meanings are defined as
>'critical evaluation and examination', 'a period of testing and trial
>to ascertain fitness for a job', and even 'a newly admitted student
>nurse whose fitness is being tested during a trial period'.
>

Whoa! Hold it there Don! Put the dictionary down and nobody will get hurt!

As wonderful as dictionary definitions can be, I still believe "probationary period" should be deleted from employee manuals everywhere. I like to think that I am not on the politically correct band-wagon, I take all that with a grain of salt, but I am concernd with employee morale and I believe that there are certain things that aren't as obvious to everyone that may be negatively impacting the work culture. It's important that we take care of our employees, even if it means changing one word in the employee manual. Most people don't even know that it is affecting them. Im not sure if you are playing the devils advocate or not here, but I know there is someone out there that agrees with me. right? :-S

April

WOCO Frank · April 2003

I suspect that in most cases, "probationary" period, status, etc., is the most accurate description of the situation. In most cases, it is certainly more accurate than "orientation period". And that, in my mind, is one of the worst forms of political correctness... substituting less-accurate terminology for "touchy-feely" purposes.

If you have a 90-day orientation period, how do you terminate someone for performance at day 10? Or day 89? You've already announced that it takes 90 days to learn the job.

Again, it comes down to this - what have you gained by having a 90-day orientation period, or 90-day probationary period?

Leslie · April 2003

We don't do a performance evalutation until the end of the 90 day probationary (yes we still use THAT term) time frame. However, the employee can be termed within that time frame for non-performance issues without having to go through progressive discipline - attendance, insubordination, etc., etc. After completion of said probation, employee gains full or part time regular employment. Ah, semantics.

AprilShowers · April 2003

Leslie,
Maybe I am reading your post wrong, but in no way did I intend to offend anyone with my opinion on the term "probationary". It's definately not going to infect your employees with any diseases, just something to think about. I guess I need to get these emoticons down so that my easy going personality is more apparent in my posts!

Always with good intentions (Trust me, I know where that leads),

April
x:-8

scottorr · April 2003

We do not have a probationary period because some courts have viewed them as guarenteeing employment althought most do not. We would rather be safe than sorry. We treat new employees the same as our other employees. When they start we out line goals and expectations and let them know that these goals are reviewed every six months for all employees including exempt and non-exempt.

ritaanz · April 2003

Our non-exempt employees receive a Progress Report every 30 days for a maximum of 6 months. At any time the department supervisor can decide to terminate the employee as "did not qualify" or after 3 months, recommend to retain the employee as a regular employee. If you are interested in getting the Progress Report, give me your email address.

Our exempt employees are reviewed after 6 months. If they do not meet expectations they are let go as soon as that has been decided.

LisaMN · April 2003

We too have eliminated any reference to a probationary period, in response to guidance from our attorney.

I do have a question though, how much time is used in doing 30 day (or 60 day, or 90 day) evals on all the new hires, and what is the return on that investment?

Another question is, are hiring errors made so frequently that you need to have the waiting period for benefits?

Just a couple thoughts......:-?

ritaanz · April 2003

Lisa, I am not sure if your questions were directed to me, but I'll answer them. Competeing the Progress Report takes, at most, 5 minutes. The interaction between the department supervisor and the employee is the important part. We don't look at it as time consuming. We see it as positive reinforcement and find that it works well for us.

A new hire gets benefits the first of the month after hire. There is no waiting period.

Zanne · April 2003

Lisa:

I'll wade in there also. Our 30, 60, and 90 day evals are a shorter version of the annual evals. I suspect some of our management spends 5 minutes on them - others (being the type of personality that they are) probably spend 2 days on them. We think it's a good way to formalize feedback during the orientation (I'm with you AprilShowers!) period so that if termination comes at 90 days - it shouldn't be a surprise.

Please note that I said "shouldn't". We recently termed an employee after only 7 days of work because she showed up late for 6 days and returned late from lunch for all 7 days. We felt that any amount of "formalizing feedback" wouldn't help in this matter! Anyway - she was totally astonished about the whole thing.

Our benefits start day one. Where I used to work - our 90 day turnover rate was about 55% so - it made sense not to start benefits until 90 days were up. Otherwise it was putting people on insurance one month to term them the next. Here, our 90 turnover rate (prior to Ms. Late) is about 1%.

Zanne

Leslie · April 2003

Our medical insurance effective date changed on 01/01/2003 from first of the month after three months of work to first of the month after one month of work. It's a pain. Since the first of the year, we've hired 196 people - 27 (14% so far) haven't made it - 8 of whom went on the insurance, only to be taken off (one twice).

It sure is keeping my benefits specialist busy, when you consider all the other new hires in that time frame who have made it (so far!) and the other terms in that time frame (85).

Whew - guess I don't have to ask her what she's doing with her time.

LisaMN · April 2003

My thought process is that in HR we tend to create cumbersome, time-consuming systems to eliminate anomalies. Not necessarily a good return on time invested. I think they call it managing to the exception instead of the rule.

The interaction with supervisors and ees is (usually) a good thing, perhaps its an issue of perspective. Is the probationary process in place to enhance the relationship between ee and er or to provide an opportunity to remove an ee who's not a good fit. Using the example from Zanne, logically, the ee would have been terminated no matter how long she'd been there, based on her attendance record. Do we start the relationship believing its going to work or do we believe its going to fail?

Just sharing some thoughts.....

ritaanz · April 2003

Every person I hire, I consider them to be a "good" hire. Therefore, we (the department supervisor and I) believe that the relationship will be a productive one for us as well as the employee.

Thinking that it will fail from the get-go is counter-productive. If that's the way you feel about an applicant, are you hiring him/her to prove you were right about the person failing or because you needed a warm body?

ray a · April 2003

We have a 90 day "Introductory Period" that applies to all employees. During this time they receive only state mandated benefits, such as disability, and are evaluated at 30, 60, and 90 days. If during this time, their performance is substandard, we let them go without following through on the disciplinary process. Once they hit the 90 day mark, to terminate, management must follow the progressive disciplinary process.

We call it an Introductory Period because of the negative connotations of "probation".

WOCO Frank · April 2003

So, an employee gets a 90-day free ride?

Don D · April 2003

Perhaps we have all created, or been handed, various monsters in response to suggestions from lawyers and consultants. Can we calculate how much of what we do in HR is JUST THAT? Probably 75%. Managing to the exception has become the rule in many instances. The courts, in conjunction with the rules that come out of the congressional delivery room, and the many federal and state agencies who are our watchdogs, have forced us all to grow HR departments mired in thick layers of policy and procedure. My grandfather was an engineer on the Illinois Central Railroad. A fireman or conductor who didn't perform according to the engineer's expectations was put off at the next stop, sometimes earlier.

WOCO Frank · April 2003

Agreed, Don. We are often made to choose between two approaches: What furthers organizational productivity, versus What helps us IF we ever get pulled into court. We can try our darnedest to come down in the middle, but so often the choices are mutually exclusive. When in doubt, I act for organizational productivity, but that doesn't win me points with counsel.

Probation Dilemma--Help!!

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