Knowing Too Much

T · April 2003

I have several new supervisors who have access to their own ee's files. Unfortunately, some of the ee's make more money than their supervisors, because maybe they have been here much longer?? The problem is for example, that now the supervisor has a little hostility toward the ee and/or the supervisor quits or doesn't want the position any longer and now they know how much money those ee's are making.

Does anyone have suggestions on how I should handle this? Maybe keep payroll records, such as increase requests or amount of pay, separate than the ee files???

Thanks.

HRPeg · April 2003

I would make sure that going forward all personnel files are kept in one location under lock and key (ours are in my office which is locked if I am not in it) We also keep a separate file with medical and private info in it that the supervisors never have access to.
Who does the performance reviews? Who is able to approve raises? If the supervisors do this, then they need the info anyway. But they should not have total access to personnel files, that is how important items come up missing.
Sounds like you all might need to re evaluate your pay structure, too.

SMace · April 2003

I want to re-iterate what HRPeg said, you need to re-evaluate your pay structure. You should not be paying ee's more than their supervisors.

kcovalt · April 2003

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 04-11-03 AT 12:34PM (CST)[/font][p]There are some circumstances where it is appropriate to pay employees more than their manager. For example, we have a terrific manager over our product development department who has wonderful organizational and people skills. Everyone in her department loves working for her and is happy with the structure she has brought into the department. She supervises software engineers, who are very highly paid. Because she does not have the technical background her employees have, she does not receive as high a salary as they do. Her skills are very important but not as highly paid as more technical skills. This has not created a problem.

Paul in Cannon Beach · April 2003

I agree that it is a little strange to have an employee making more than the supervisor. Its a recipe for conflict and a good argument for pay ranges.

Having said that, the supervisor is still earning what he/she agreed to be paid and therefore should show a little more maturity and professionalism.

Paul

Karla · April 2003

After reading this post, I have to admit, knowledge of salaries can sting a little. As the HR Director at my company, imagine my "minor irritation" when I discovered the payroll clerk makes about 30 grand more than me, several managers, and all of the engineers. Granted, the clerk has been here 28 years, but the job hasn't changed in those 28 years as payroll is still virtually manual. I am all for loyalty, but is this a little out of line? Either this person "knows something", or I must have had a bad weekend.... Happy Monday!

crawfod · April 2003

Karla, something is out of line if a Payroll Clerk makes 30 grand more than management positions, partly assuming you are referring to base pay, but even if that includes overtime then something is wrong. Lots of pay systems have pay ranges that can overlap higher graded positions, so it is possible for longer term employees at lower grades to make more than higher grade employees with less time on the job. Eventually, the higher grade employees will surpass the lower grade employees, but it can be a source of frustration for a while. But, back to the Payroll Clerk, I can't understand how that pay structure could be set up with an opportunity for someone at that level to earn that much money, even if you are in high price cities like New York, L.A., or Chicago. I'm partly assuming you are talking about someone making 70 to 80 grand a year. Let us know when she retires as I would guess a lot of us would want to apply for that job at that type income.

njjel · April 2003

We too have some positions that are highly overpaid for the title and job responsibilities that accompany them because the employee has been here a long time and rather than give COL increases with a bonus to those employees they were given straight pay increases over the years. Thus we have the situation like the writer's in a couple of instances and it has caused problems as well. And yes a change should be made but no one is willing (in upper management) to make one even though they know it's wrong because the people have been here so long. (sigh)

Pork · April 2003

T: In my 28 years in the HR field, I have come upon some ees who make more money on an annual basis than their bosses; when one considers the specialty in which these ees work they normally do not have management and leader skills but are highly qualified in their field. The company and the pay structure can allow for these occasions and every one will be happy. However, the supervisors and managers should be informed prior to them stepping into a new supervisor/manager role of the WHO AND WHY for the situation to exsist. Now somethings tells me that the PAYROLL clerk has made herself into a "power house" and no body knows anything about how to do her job. Thus by teaching no one and keeping everything manual, there is job security for 28 years!

Or there was job security, I recommend number #1, have the company set a cap on the payroll position! Then, if the company wants to give her a pay increase annually, then do it through the "lump sum" increase basis paid every 1/2 year or in 6 months increments.

#2 Another way to "skin this cat" is to 'out source' this activity and provide this emoployee with new challegnes and a new position which provides her current salary for the work put out. With base salary + benefits I am sure you will be able to find a company to get your payroll out for far less expenditure.

#3 After 6 months,if it is not working and saving money, you can revert back to an in house position and hire a person for an appropriate rate of pay for the PAYROLL function.

My payroll person makes $11.50 per hour, and she is my assistant HR. She does PAYROLL in two days (MONDAY & TUESDAY) and handles all of the other administrative funtions from Monday to Sunday and in a 40 hour work week. My assistant keeps my "butt" covered, and I get to entertain my self and learn new HR things on this NETWORK/FORUM.

May you too have a Blessed Day! Pork

AnneLa · April 2003

Pork,

How many employees do you have - my payroll clerk can't seem to get payroll under control and be able to assist in HR. Just curious?

POPEYE · April 2003

I can't speak for Pork but my payroll clerk also serves as my admin and takes care of the obligatory paper work and filing. She helps track FMLA, WC, and all vacations and leaves as well as benefit enrollments. We have approximately 350 employees and she stays caught up all the time. She has been here about 3 years and I can only recall 2-3 corrections to payroll that have been her fault.
She is in the upper $20s for salary.

Trinity · April 2003

Our payroll is also handled in about 2 days, but we have electronic time sheets that the employees use when they log into the computer. We use a company called ADP to cut the checks and add up the time, but HR also does this for the calculation of sick time, vacations, and tardys..

jimlegal · April 2003

Keep all HR files confidential. Allow only authorized personnel can have access to HR information.

Don D · April 2003

The root cause and cures for the payroll discrepancies aside, I believe firmly that any supervisor has a right to know the pay of his direct reports, always. Keeping certain pieces of the 'personnel file' from the supervisor will only breed larger issues to deal with. I'm speaking only of the raw personnel file, not the medical or related other stuff kept separately.

scottorr · April 2003

We keep three seperate files on our employees. One file contains their medical info. The second file contains only performance review information and the third contains all other information that no one but HR has access to. Our salaries are not based on performance reviews they are based on market rates so our supervisors never have access to their ee salary information. Our performance reviews determine annual bonuses only. Our employees and supervisors seem to be generally happy with this situation. Our supervisors including those incharge of technical positions make more than the people they supervise. If you pay them less and they know about it, it is a huge de-motivator. I worked for a company that was set up just like yours and it caused many many headaches. I would look at changing your compensation structure.

I am genuinely curious about the company that had a non-technical supervisor managing technical employees. How does the supervisor know what the employees are doing on a daily basis? How does she set goals and objectives to measure performance if she doesn't understand what they do? We recently had a non-technical ee apply for a technical supersior opening.

kcovalt · April 2003

The nontechnical supervisor does not know how to write software code, but she knows everything about the processes and procedures to complete software on schedule. Her programmers are held to a very detailed schedule and meet with her on a regular basis to monitor their progress. We have hired managers with a technical background for this position before but we were not happy with their work and the products were never completed on time. This manager has been with us for seven years and her department is more productive than it has been in our entire history and the turn over in her department is 0%.

scottorr · April 2003

That is good to know! We will take a second look at our ee who applied for the supervisor postion!

T · April 2003

WOW !!

Thanks everyone for all the terrific information.

Knowing Too Much

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