Fired for accepting a horn?

scantey · April 2003

Two long term employees (one 17 years and the other 24 years) were recently terminated for accepting company property. I could understand if it was anything of value- however it was broken horns from the work trucks. The employer actually stated that if they could bring a receipt to prove that they had the horns fixed then they could come back to work. (I guess not believing that the horns were broken when they received them) However, the employee who sent the horn was not terminated, but was merely put on suspension. The long term employees feel that this was the only thing that the BRAND NEW manager could get them for. They feel that they were clearly singled out and feel that all of their years of service meant nothing to the Company. The policy manual does state that employees are not to receive stolen company property but this was sent to them and the old manager had knowledge of it. I am not involved in this at all but I was curious what your take is on the situation.

Balloonman · April 2003

So a manager was okay with them receiving the horns that did not work, yet they were terminated? That sounds not to cool. What is the issue between the manager and these employees that they were fired. I sense there is more to the story here. I have seen people fired for stealing a bag of potato chips, but the vending maching was broken into they just continued the theft. I had no problem with that, but this case does not sound right.
Just my $0.02 worth.
DJ The Balloonman

scantey · April 2003

The old manager (who is no longer there) did not terminate them but the "new manager" who came in said he goes strictly by the book. I was told (and this is all third hand) that the GM does not like these two individuals and was asked to "watch them closely." He earned lots of brownie points with the GM by firing them.

Rockie · April 2003

He may not earn as many brownie points if they file an Age Discrimination suit against the company. When I look at cases like this, I always place myself in the courtroom and say "What would this jury see?" The jury would see two long term employees (probably both over age 40, so a protected class). The jury would also see that the two people who received the broken horns were terminated, but the employee who furnished the "stolen" goods was not terminated. Woe to you if this person is under age 40.

If it appears in any way that these individuals were somehow "targeted" by your company and/or manager,they have a very good case.

It appears there is a policy for receiving stolen property, but it doesn't look like this property was stolen. If it was, the party that furnished them the horns was the thief. If this guy was following the letter of the policy, he would have terminated all three.

I think he is on thin ice.

dodaniel · April 2003

I agree with Rockie!

Balloonman · April 2003

My prediction is you are going to have a lot of heartburn over this. Probably some legal issues too. Remember what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. So figure this will be a memorable, and most likely expensive learining experience. If you want to get rid of people, if the are rule breakers there are smarter, cleaner ways of doing it.
My $0.02 worth.
DJ The Balloonman

Moria · April 2003

Gotta go with Rockie, this whole thing "blows". x;-)

SDDCHR · April 2003

I agree....there are obviously some unanswered questions here and from an outsiders view it looks as if these employees are being targeted for something? What disciplinary action (if any) is addressed in your policy? Does it state that they will be terminated? And I agree that this needs to be looked at from a jury's perspective. There would have to be something a little more concrete then what you have described! Let us know how this pans out.....

jimlegal · April 2003

Who is the real actor in your post? From your post it seems that neither employee who received the horns "took" anything! In fact it seems that the only employee that actually took anything was the employee who "sent" the horns, and that employee wasn't terminated? Sounds to me that if the terminated employees contact legal counsel, the company is going to be "receiving" a complaint. I would document, document, document this matter. You can bet the HR person will be questioned on this one!!!

scantey · April 2003

Thank you all for your responses...I agree with them. Like I said I am not involved in this one but I was asked my opinion...I thought it sounded really fishy. I will wait to see what pans out and keep you posted.
Thanks Again!
Suzanne

Bizee1 · April 2003

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 04-10-03 AT 12:03PM (CST)[/font][p]What are the ages of the termed individuals and what are the ages of their replacements? I would recommend both of these people to consult with an Employment Law attorney as soon as possible!

scantey · April 2003

THey are both over 50 and actively looking for a California law attorney. From everything I have read lately it seems the Company would be better off negotiating a settlement...
Thanks Again!

Whatever · April 2003

Why is it being assumed that this is an age discrimination lawsuit. Maybe it has to do with some other form of discrimination...maybe not all. What is obvious, is that any good creative lawyer might be able to do alot with this. Two employees were fired for receiving "stolen" goods. However, how can they be stolen if the manager at the time knew about it. The employee who actually took the "stolen" goods is not fired. And the manager who does the firing says he is going by the book. Every book I have ever seen says stealing from the company is a firable(is this a word?)offense. There is something very strange going on here. I don't know what it is, but it sounds like some attorney is going to have a field day.

Crout · April 2003

Let me play devil's advocate here. I think the two long-term employees DID receive stolen company property. The horns were stolen by their supervisor, who was then disciplined....right? They knew the horns belonged to the company...right? Okay, so then you'd have to look at their past performance records, including past disciplines, to come up with an appropriate response. Perhaps these guys were already on thin ice. Just because you've been with a company for a number of years doesn't mean that you're immune to violating a work rule. I wish that were so, believe me.

jimlegal · April 2003

Maybe just an artifical excuse to knock them out of their retirement? Wasn't equal discipline for all involved. I know I'm glad this isn't one of our company's problems!

WOCO Frank · April 2003

I would rather be their attorney than yours.

Fired for accepting a horn?

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