HR vs. Controller

keithlf · December 2002

In the manufacturing world, who should do the determination of production and non-production classifications?

System · December 2002

When I was in manufacturing, the classifying of employees fell under my direction and responsibility, not the controller's responsibility.

Margaret Morford · December 2002

In all my jobs in HR, we had responsibility for classifying people. This is true in all my clients as well. HR is already doing job analysis for the purpose of setting compensation, so classification becomes part of that since HR usually knows much more about the job duties than Finance. Hope that helps and gives you a good arguement to make to the "powers that be."

Margaret Morford
theHRedge
615-371-8200
[email]mmorford@mleesmith.com[/email]
[url]http://www.thehredge.net[/url]

bsa · December 2002

HR has the responsibility to evaluate and classify positions, non-exempt and exempt. The controller normally doesn't have the time or the training to ensure FSLA compliance.

Pork · December 2002

In my 25 years of HR position classification, compensation, and benefits follow under the HR. However, there is no fast rule in any organization as to who does what. Tread lighly here be a compromiser unless you wish to cut your own throat and pick a fight with the controller. In all companies in which I have been employed as the HR, the controller has always been one step above me in position and authority over the organization. In two of the organizations the controller had budgetry responsibilities and they gladly pasted the position classification, compensation, & benefits headaches off to me the HR. They did not want it and I had the experience and want it so I got it. Pork

Rockie · December 2002

In my humble opinion, classification of employees is a human resource function. In my experience, I haven't found many controllers who knew a hill of beans about classification of employees or even wanted to!

wiremanufacturer · December 2002

Rockie, I think I resent that remark. I am the "Controller" at my small company. We have hired the majority owners sons to be our "HR" department. Ok this guy came from a trucking background and doesn't know anything about HR. I have taken upon myself to learn as much as I can.(Part of the reason I am on this forum)
I don't think that you can categorize who knows what. I know when I move on to my next job that the HR department will probably have the same opinion that I won't know anything, boy will they be in for a shock.

Pork · December 2002

Dear Wire: I am so glad to know that there is a least one controller out here in our world! Please give me the answer do my posting on payment of death benefit "the last payment of time worked before death" "plus vacation time and sick pay not used before death". As a controller reeling in our HR world your advice and expert knowledge will be greatly appreciated. Pork

Rockie · December 2002

Sorry, didn't mean to offend. As I stated "in my experience", I've never met.....I am sure there are exceptions to every rule.

sbt · December 2002

I am also a Controller and an accountant by education who is usually thrust into the HR role by default. From my standpoint I would have to put my foot down about a nonaccounting professional making determinations that effect job/overhead costing but I have never seen this as an issue.

Dutch2 · December 2002

Have you read the job descriptions for your HR and Controller positions. Bet you cannot find anything in the Contoller JD about deciding Exempt or Non-exempt. The HR position must be the expert on this matter.

keithlf · December 2002

Thanks to everyone who responded. I feel the same way as you do and wanted to solidify my position. Our branch controller doesn't want to make the decisions...we agree on that, but the corporate controller controls just about everything. Our controller said that the corporate controller has to make the decision. It is time to update to the present time, but I didn't want to make too many waves until I had some other opinions. As Pork said, I have to thread lightly.

Don D · December 2002

In manufacturing, Controllers and Analysts often get antsy about such matters as direct and indirect labor costs and sometimes join the conversation regarding that. That's the only instance I'm familiar with where the Controller has any interest in position classification. I agree that this is a Human Resources responsibility. I also agree with wiremanufacturer that Controllers are fine and knowledgeable people who often are able to leap medium height buildings in no more than two attempts. I have one next door to my office. He rarely makes offensive noises. Nor does his pocket protector leak. x:-)

wiremanufacturer · December 2002

Don

I will have you know that I have managed to leap very tall buildings in a single bound with room to spare. Last time I looked I didn't even have a pocket on my shirt to wear a pocket protector. The only ones around here that wear them are the engineers and one owner. I will stand up for all of those who insist upon putting us, controllers, down. I understand that there are some major nerds in our group but don't judge us all by that.

Don D · December 2002

Dear 'Wire': Please unwire. Some of my very favorite people are accountants, controllers, comptrollers and financial analysts where I work. Don't read my tongue in cheek comments as a putdown. Although the HR discipline, in general, is not black and white - cut and dried, as often the 'books' are, I welcome your intelligence and discipline to our world. We can learn from each other. Although there is generally not a grey area to rest in with accountants; HR regularly requires navigation of not only deep, alligator-infested ponds, but, grey areas as well. But, back to the original argument....the accounting discipline is not the typical place where position classifications are found or assigned. At least that's been my lifelong experience.

WOCO Frank · December 2002

But isn't it true that controllers are just accountants who don't have the people skills to be auditors?

(Teasing accountants is almost as much fun as teasing IT'ers, and the accountants don't yank you from the network in retaliation.)

Don D · December 2002

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 12-19-02 AT 10:35AM (CST)[/font][p]Right Frank! Accountants just stop paying you!!!!!!!!!
P.S: I would like to meet somebody with less people skills than an auditor! Waitaminit.....I don't think I would like to do that at all.

wiremanufacturer · December 2002

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 12-19-02 AT 10:46AM (CST)[/font][p]Thanks for the reply Don. I was just thinking of the perfect one for Frank. I happen to have worked with auditing in a CPA firm before coming to work as the Controller here. I must say that auditors have no personality. Just so happens that in this organization that the only one around here with no personality is the HR Manager.
And I msut have a warped personality if I choose to spend my time on this forum chatting with ya'll.
Guess Controllers aren't that bad after all.
And by the way....I've only stopped paying people after they really make me mad. Guess Frank's lucky he doesn't work here...or does he?

Don D · December 2002

Just to be on the safe side, and in the interest of the Season, you should check the payroll and delete upcoming paychecks for all people with the first name of Frank. That's sure to get him! Moving in your career from auditing to controlling then to HR responsibilities proves to us that you are on the track to salvation. Have a good Christmas. Hope you get a pocket protector.

wiremanufacturer · December 2002

If I do get a pocket protector I think that I will send it to Frank. It's the least I could do for deleting his paycheck for the rest of the year.
Merry Christmas to all.
This is such a good place to vent out frustrations.
Sometimes I think I would be better off working in a daycare. At least there you expect to see diapers and pacifiers.
OK can you see that I have had to deal with some real whinny babies today.
OH and I love my job doing the hr duties.

HR vs. Controller

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