Need advise ASAP

angelwings · September 2002

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 09-11-02 AT 04:38PM (CST)[/font][p]Recently we had and HR employee who got into some financial trouble and a couple of the other managers offered to loan her some money to help her. All of the money has been repaid, however, we have a new General Manager who found out about this and suspended her for 3 days pending an investigation. He told her he felt that she had crossed the line being that she was in HR dealing with payroll etc.... I have been arguing for her as I feel what is done between two consenting people is their "private" business. I also know that she and our new GM do not see eye to eye on several issues. I feel strongly that he will go ahead and terminate her employment. If so, don't we stand a big chance of a wrongful disharge case? There is nothing in our policies about this, and she has had no discipline at all, verbal or documented. I am trying to make him understand that this is not the way to handle it. I also know how terribly humiliated she is and even "if" he brought her back, it would be a very bad environment for her to work in again. x:0

Mel in CO · September 2002

I think that you do stand a chance of a wrongful discharge claim. I don’t think that it would be a huge lawsuit but there would probably be an unemployment case to follow if she was terminated. I think you are correct that since this was an exchange of money between two individuals, there is nothing improper about this case. The only problem that I would see is if she took money from the company through payroll, stole from petty cash, employee funds, etc. but it doesn't sound like from your post that she did. I think that this GM was just trying to find something wrong with the HR employee and he picked on the only thing that he could find. He needs to realize that everyone in life can have a financial problem - regardless of which department they work in/for. Good luck with this one. I think that if I were the HR employee, I would start searching for another position with a different organization. If he/she makes it through this one, the GM will just find something else to "ride" her on and I agree, it would be a difficult environment to return to after being embarrassed about the situation.

angelwings · September 2002

Thank you for your reply. I feel exactly the same way. I just feel for her because she loves the job and needs the job, but in the same token, she said she would feel really uncomfortable returning if given the chance. She did not wrong, but has been embarrassed greatly among her peers.

NaeNae55 · September 2002

If the loans were between private individuals, how did the GM find out? Do all employees know why she was suspended? Did all employees know about the loans before suspension? Could the company somehow be charged with making the employee's private concerns public? It sounds like your GM is lacking in basic management skills...like knowing the law and how to handle people.

angelwings · September 2002

Yes, the loans were between private individuals. I don't know how the GM found out unless it was talked about and then got back to him. He feels she "crossed the line" by borrowing money from her co-managers while being in HR/Payroll. He has not told other employees (to my knowledge) why she was suspended. I feel that her private affairs are none of the company's business (including his). He does lack in management skills. His skills seem to be "my way or the hiway", if you know what I mean. Thanks for your input.

hrqueen · September 2002

According to information I have, Kansas has court rulings regulating employment-at-will, including Good Faith and Fair Dealing. It seems to me likely that the employee has legal recourse in court since there has already been some sort of court action pertaining to an employer's unreasonable behavior. Even if she doesn't win, does your company want the cost of defending itself in court?

This sounds like a private transaction between individuals and has no bearing on her employment. If you have no documentation of any company rule or policy broken, no previous history of disciplinary problems with this employee, I would tell the General Manager that you strongly urge him to discuss this matter with a labor attorney because he's on thin ice and sinking rapidly. And do it in writing and keep a copy.

Lori B · September 2002

The GM sounds like a clod, no doubt about it. I hesitate though when someone claims wrongful discharge. It seems like everybody thinks any perceived wrong is harassment or wrongful discharge. The laws really don't work that way. At will employment means you get to fire people for incredibly stupid reasons, or no reason at all, so long as it isn't an illegal reason. As HR professionals, we all know the better practice is to have sound, documented reasons, but the law has never gone so far as to actually require that....

Unless she is claiming she is a member of a protected category and the conduct is in connection with the category, any claim here looks weak. Some states allow claims for discharges against "public policy" but that is usually a tough standard to meet. Most states severely limit that b/c they don't want ees running to the cts for everly perceived slight.

This case is unfortunate. I see it more as morale problem than a legal one though.

Don D · September 2002

Exactly Lori! Although I disagree with the executive's assessment of the situation and his conclusion that there may be some breach of fiduciary duty since she works in H.R., as you say, he is entitled to make the decision even if its based on dumb-logic. And nothing will (likely) come of a wrongful discharge charge if his sole reasoning can be shown to be the loan scenario. Let me open a can of worms here, just for the sake of conversation. I wonder what might have been the reactions had a male H.R. member in a position of (perceived or real) power in the company received loans from females in the company perhaps in positions 'junior' to his. I think we might have an uproar of sorts about perceptions and outcomes and cautionary warnings.

Crout · September 2002

I agree with Lori in principle, however, since there is no documentation, the EE can make ANY claim as to why she was let go, which could cause a financial drain on your organization in regard to time and attorney fees. And if she is able to convince the EEOC that there is a discrimination case here you can expect a call from them as well. The thing is that you don't want ANY outside organization looking through your files. I once went through a DOL audit (wage violations) and we weren't just hit for the wage issue, we got killed on EVERY violation they found for every little thing. This is the road you guys are going down because of the inappropriate practices of your General Manager. The GM must be made to see how he/she is putting your company at risk.

Gillian · September 2002

Unless this person has something else on which to hang their hat, there isn't much risk of a wrongful termination case. Some of the issues which could cause a problem are the person is a minority, the person previously complained to the GM or someone else about someone at the company doing something wrong like falsifying government documents, she was promised a job for life by the previous GM, etc. This probably doesn't rise to the level of violating good faith and fair dealing expectations. The requirements there are a bit higher than basic unfairness, which this situation certainly is. The court systems in the various states vary from liberal to conservative in their interpretation of what wrongful termination is and isn't and I don't know about Kansas in this regard.

angelwings · September 2002

Update to our situation. Looks like our GM is getting a little scared that this issue may become a legal one, and is considering bringing this employee back. However, when I last spoke to her, she is not sure she wants to return because she is afraid of the environment she will return to. She wanted my advise which I could not give her and remain loyal to our company. I am afraid if he offers her a chance to return and she doesn't, she may lose whatever chance at all of legal recourse.

Need advise ASAP

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