Is This Sexual Harassment?

Red · August 2002

One of our male employees has a school boy crush on one of our female employees.She is young and single, and is in the process of buying a house. He has been e-mailing her saying that it is immoral for her to have a house; that men will want to move in with her and then take advantage of her and she will be ruined for life. He asked her if she were Catholic, what her mother thought of her buying a house, if she valued a house more than her life. He told her she would not be the girl he knew if she were to buy this house and let her boyfriend move in with her. The lst e-mail spoke of her in the past tense. ("You were a nice person....") Is this sexual harassment or is this possibly much worse? The female employee would prefer I not get involved but I told her I was going to have to. I am meeting with our company attorney later today. What would you do????

bsa · August 2002

After meeting with your attorney and you have conducted an investigation, the bare minimum action would be to warn the gentleman that he should not send personal emails through the company network (even if you don't have an emai policy). A stronger action would include the harassment charges and the promise of termination if it continues.

sonny · August 2002

ditto to BSA. .if you have an email policy that is a good way to go. I'll be interested in what the attorney says, but I do not get a good gut about this and do not think it is a school boy crush.

hrqueen · August 2002

The question is, does SHE view this as sexual harassment. It is certainly inappropriate behavior and I would take a strong stand on it. Do you have a written anti-harassment policy? To protect yourself from any potential lawsuit and to protect the female employee, I would approach this from the harassment standpoint and, if he has been trained on your harassment policy, give him a suspension as well as put him on final warning.

Don D · August 2002

Ya'll know how I hesitate to give my opinion: I think his behavior is psychotic and is symptomatic of a stalker. This is a dangerous man. Don't be surprised if he has a photo of her taped to his mirror and regularly follows her home after work and then drives on. Find a way to get him out the door. The rest of you can stone me, but that's my read on it.

sonny · August 2002

Thanks for putting it out there, Don. My feelings exactly. tho I hesitated to state so strongly.

Don D · August 2002

Well, I am a bit shy, but sometimes I muster the courage. x:-8 Another thing you can look for when you and the attorney confront this guy in your office...He will go into a great display of emotion with things like, "Who, meeee?" and "I can't imagine why you would think this or she would think that." and "I consider her a friend. I certainly understand. You don't have to worry about me." Watch for those classic responses. Then he'll think he's in a safe zone and that's when the staring and leering start and she's now feeling threatened and she's very uncomfortable and by then, he's offering to help her move her stuff into the new house, and it will only get worse. She also needs to bring the police into this at a very early point and maybe your attorney will offer advice on that. To hell with 'false accusation' theories. She's not accusing. She's only expressing legitimate discomfort. Sometimes these behaviors are almost impossible to re-channel. But, sometimes it only takes one or more people getting straight up in his face with one finger up his nose and the other on his chest. Perhaps her boyfriend and her dad will enjoy that role. She must also be challenging and almost confrontational in her behavior when he engages her, rather than shrinking and submissive and projecting helplessness. He'll get off on those reactions and it'll encourage him. I'll stop for now.

Mentel · August 2002

Your right. There is something very wrong with this guy. Don't just get rid of him at the first chance, I would consider discussing this with the local police.

Rockie · September 2002

I definitely agree with Don. This guy has all the earmarks of a stalker. If it didn't bother the employee, she would not have brought it up.

I would first bring him in and tell him to cease and desist immediately with his behavior and any more behavior of this type will be grounds for immediate dismissal. If he is truly a stalker, this will not stop him. If he just has a "crush", he will stop.

I would also advise the employee that she will more than likely have to end up taking out a restraining order on him as will the company if this continues.

These are very dangerous people and very persistent in their obsessions. Save your stone casting for these guys, not Don!

ritaanz · August 2002

Been there, done that. Don is right on the mark. But....terminating the guy does NOT stop the problem if he's in fact obsessed with her. She should call the police now. Show them the emails. The sooner the better. Will save a lot of grief and fear. If in fact we are wrong, it puts the guy on alert to stop or else!

Crout · August 2002

Red, to be honest with you, I can't believe that you would characterize this as a "school-boy crush" when it is obviouly so much more. This guy is WAY over the line. Along with a thorough investigation, I would do a thorough interview with the EE, and gauge the response based on that. If he appears to be genuinely contrite and can see how his actions were highly inappropriate, then you MIGHT consider keeping him on with a strong warning. However, if his conduct during the interview indicates otherwise, I would pursue termination. At that point, he would be too much of a liability. In offering this, I am assuming that this person is non-union. This is a tricky situation. I hope it works out for you.

Paul in Cannon Beach · August 2002

I agree with all thats been said above... reading your first post and what this guy wrote gave me the creeps and got all my bells ringing. There are some wierd things going on in this guys head and the stuff he has said or written might just be the tip of the iceberg.

It was nice of him to use e-mail and provide you with easy documentation.

[email]paulknoch@hotmail.com[/email]

nellyhrmendez · September 2002

>Red, to be honest with you, I can't believe that you would
>characterize this as a "school-boy crush" when it is obviouly so much
>more. This guy is WAY over the line. Along with a thorough
>investigation, I would do a thorough interview with the EE, and gauge
>the response based on that. If he appears to be genuinely contrite
>and can see how his actions were highly inappropriate, then you MIGHT
>consider keeping him on with a strong warning. However, if his
>conduct during the interview indicates otherwise, I would pursue
>termination. At that point, he would be too much of a liability. In
>offering this, I am assuming that this person is non-union. This is a
>tricky situation. I hope it works out for you.

I agree with this being a lot more serious than a "school boy crush". This is dangerous ground and I see BIG LIABILITY!

HR Guy · August 2002

I completely agree with Don D!!! Call the police & get this guy out the door! This situation has all the markings of a Lifetime movie of the week! :-S

Gillian · August 2002

The posts are all on the mark - there is something strange going on with this guy. You did the right thing to contact your attorney. Whether it is sexual harassment or not is not important, you just have to address the issue. Whether the guy gets fired or not is a judgement call and depends on your assessment of his actions. We once had a guy who did strange things like you describe, but I didn't view him as a stalker. He was told one more time and he would be gone and now he's gone. If your assessment is that he is dangerous by all means contact the police and terminate his employment.

Margaret Morford · August 2002

This guy's package is clearly wrapped too tight. If you're looking for additional ammo to terminate, don't forget the religious issue. He asked her if she was Catholic, etc.

Margaret Morford
theHRedge
615-371-8200
[email]mmorford@mleesmith.com[/email]
[url]http://www.thehredge.net[/url]

Don D · August 2002

I don't know about his package, but I can tell you she is not his first victim, nor will she be his last. You need him out of the staffing plan so that his future efforts don't occur on your watch. If it stops right here, she's still a victim and he's 'gotten off' on it mentally. Secondly, the police won't be able to do anything in response to your call, other than send an officer down. Any action they might take would be based on her signed complaint. However, it may be entirely productive to invite an officer to the company, be sure he is walked through the area where the guy sits and have it obviously known that you are walking him into your office with the victim. This may serve only to cause the offender to scramble for a change of clothes, but it makes a helluva statement. The cop's presence coupled with the lawyer's visit, the boyfriend's confrontation and the father's (shall we say) 'counsel', might just redirect this clown's behavior. Lastly, Crout, I wouldn't let a union contract dead-end me in my decision to terminate. A good contract will have an 'egregious conduct' clause, side-tracking the progressive discipline article. I doubt he's a member of a bargaining unit. But, even if so, we might be surprised to see the president of the union go along with a termination. If he doesn't, that's fine too. Sometimes, when political correctness eludes me and HR Best Practice is down the toilet, I simply ask myself, "What would my Granddaddy do?"

Theresa Gegen TX · August 2002

Don and I just can't agree today.

Well the scenario you put forth makes my skin crawl. But my experience tells me that things are not always as they seem. Like any other issue, before you make up your mind and convict this guy, you need to do a complete investigation.

You need to gather all of the emails in hard copy form and protect them (in case litigation should ensue). Then you need to talk to the sender and get his explaination. This is critical!! There are some cases where an employee has claimed harassment on the basis of some emails, but when the investigation was done it was clear that it was a consensual relationship. IN other words, the complaining employee send emails that were just as suggestive (or whatever) to the one they are now complaining about.

I am not saying that it has happened here, but this guy should be given due process like any other employee. If he can't explain away the emails, and there is no consensual aspect -- then and only then decide to terminate.

Good Luck!!

Don D · August 2002

I'm not advocating flushing due process and am certainly not recommending there be NO investigation. But, I do suggest that we should not stand around like deer in the headlights, searching for outcomes, wondering what's up, conducting a lengthy, politically correct month long investigation of what we already know is an employee with some clearly visible and identifiable psychological challenges. Gillian has taught us that there are no 'problem employees', but at the end of the day, after all the tiptoeing, that's exactly what he'll still be. x:-) The real value of the Forum is the many divergent opinions. Mine is just one.

Pork · August 2002

Sounds like sexual harassment to me. Obviously, the female employee is offended; what has been her responses to these messages? Has she told him to "park it" or has she remained quite and non-committal. If she has responded to stop it in clear language, then it is time to step in and follow your published policy and guidelines progressively or move to immediate termination if that is the appropriate course of action based on the facts from both sides! Good luck Pork

HRGirl · August 2002

Everyone is thinking of the present. Lets stop and think about after the fact of firing. If this girl doesn't sign a restraining order, he is only going to get worse. Look at it this way, he has already lost his job (because of her in his mind), why stop. It could get violent. You need to make sure that she wants this persued before you call in lawyers and police. You could be wasting your time even though you think your helping. Don't get me wrong this guy has HUGE issues and a definite candidate for psych. help, but as my mother always told me...choose your battles wisely as you might be fighting them alone.

franfields · August 2002

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 08-30-02 AT 03:07PM (CST)[/font][p][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 08-30-02 AT 03:06 PM (CST)[/font]

Sounds like a religious zealot to me, not a sexual harasser. I would be afraid this guy would go postal "to save her from her sins". Gives me the creeps. :-S

sonny · September 2002

Am wondering what happened Red? Any update? Would like to hear.. it's been bugging me!

vmiller MO · September 2002

I do not disagree with the various comments. It seems to me, however, that everyone has been focused on whether the action is "sexual harassment." This is an important question, but there is also another aspect--prevention. The employer's obligation is first to prevent sexual harassment and then take immediate, corrective action if it occurs. Sometimes the need for corrective action and prevention exist at the same time. Whether one concludes that the conduct constitutes sexual harassment in the legal sense, the conduct certain screams for preventive measures. This action can be discipline, counseling, explaining the company's anti-harassment policy, sending the individual to the training classes. Some may argue that these steps are corrective action, but consider prevention is a situation where the action is no so clear as this case.

Having said all of this, I would agree with Don that you should develop an exit strategy for this employees.

Paul in Cannon Beach · September 2002

Yeah, what happened?

[email]paulknoch@hotmail.com[/email]

franfields · September 2002

Still gives me the creeps. What has been happening since you posted this?

Is This Sexual Harassment?

Comments