bereavement policy

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 08-21-02 AT 12:38PM (CST)[/font][p][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 08-21-02 AT 12:36 PM (CST)[/font]

Our bereavement policy states 3 paid days off up to and including the day of the funeral for immediate family members. If necessary, additional time off may be arranged through your supervisor. Our policy in the handbook doesn't require proof of the death and we generally don't ask.

An employee's Grandfather died. Initially she was unsure where and when the funeral would be held (the family requested an autopsy and although he was living in Virginia, his home town was in Pennsylvania). She called in Sunday and notified us of his death and spoke of needing time off but unsure when exactly. On Monday, she called in to say she was leaving that day for Virginia and that the funeral would be Wednesday and that she would return to work on Thursday. She called Tuesday and spoke to her supervisor and informed him that the funeral was going to be held in the late afternoon on Wednesday and because of that (and the fact that she was five months pregnant and three states away) she couldn't return on Thursday as planned. She asked her supervisor if she could just return on Monday and that would allow her some extra rest time and the opportunity to be with her family. He agreed. She returned Monday.

About two weeks later she was written up for attendance. The entire situation got messy. She insisted she did what was required in the handbook in the best time frame that she could. The head of HR said the request for additional time off never went through her so whatever her supervisor said was moot. The head of HR called her in and told her she had to prove her Grandfather died, she wanted an obituary from the paper in HIS hometown, the funeral service card and proof that she was there in attendance. When the woman asked why, my boss told her that the company liked to send flowers to the funeral home. Then she told her that she had three days to produce it or she would be fired. The woman brought the information in but I could tell she was very upset about what happend. She also said that she knew noone else in the company had been treated this way.

What would be the legal ramifications, if any, for not following the bereavement policy with every employee or requiring information from one employee and not another? Would it be a good idea to re-write the policy to three days off for in state funerals and five days off for out of state funerals (that way noone has to call and get an approval for more time)? And if we require proof of death and proof of attendance for out of state funerals, should we do the same for in state funerals?




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Comments

  • 21 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • To heck with the Funeral policy. It's your head of HR who's the real liability. She has made so many mistakes here it's hard to believe she's running a department. Perhaps you could steer her to this site for some schooling. In my opinion, it is not very wise and frankly wrong to write up the EE in question after she received permission from her direct Supervisor to take time off. It is also not wise to single out the EE to demand documentation when it is not the general practice to do so. Both scenerios put your company at risk. The way you've described the dynamics, it looks to me like this might be a turf war between the head of HR and the EE's Supervisor. If so, to my mind the conduct of HR person is unprofessional and unethical.
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 08-21-02 AT 01:10PM (CST)[/font][p]We have two bereavement policies. One is contractual for hourly union employees. Clearly stated, the ee must provide HR with a document from the funeral home. And the ee is allowed "Three paid days off including the date of the funeral". No flexibility other than we ARE very reasonable with document acceptance. It's not our aim to hassle people who have lost a loved one. With salaried people (everybody else) our policy states a general rule of three days off, no mention of including the date of the funeral, no requirement for documentation, and some latitude but with the admonition to supervisors that we must maintain consistency. If one of our salaried people with a deceased family member in Hawaii or China (which is possible) needs to go, we would reasonably allow more than three. Its been no problem administering. Now, to your scenario: "The head of HR" is wrong in his/her conclusion that since it didn't come from HR, it's not valid. A supervisor who tells a subordinate he has 5 days off is acting as a member of company management and I don't suppose it's every wise to suggest that if it didn't come through the queen/king of HR, it carried no weight. At best, she could have allowed it and privately admonished the supervisor. If you have no union contract, I suggest this particular policy does need some flexibility in administration but should have outer limits and should always be pre-approved insofar as possible. If you are saying the ee was written up for attendance based on this bereavement situation, and her absence was either approved or implied by the supervisor, you better back up one step. I am still trying to make some sense out of the HR head's comment that she needed the name and address of the funeral home so the company could send flowers THE WEEK AFTER THE FUNERAL.
  • Boy, this sounds like a very messy situation. I hope that the head of HR was pleased with the documentation; I just had a family member pass away and I think that I would have been upset if I was asked to "prove" that my family member passed away. I don't think that there will be any legal ramifications for not following the bereavement policy however I don't think that it is good company practices to not follow the policies that the company itself has enacted. Also, I don't think that it was "fair" to this employee to ask for documentation from her and not another employee - by not necessarily illegal. If the organization would like documentation in the future, I would suggest that it is worked into the bereavement policy and that everyone -- regardless of in state vs. out-of-state funerals -- provide the documentation. Everyone is on a level playing field at that time.

    Also, I don't know if an employee that has an out-of-state funeral should be given more bereavement leave than in-state funerals. I would be worried of those individuals that would abuse the policy and state that they have an out-of-state funeral just so that they could receive extra time off. However, documentation would cover that issue. Also, sometimes individuals that have in-state funerals will need more time also -- especially if the family member is a mother or father and a home has to be taken care of, lawyers have to be contacted, etc. I would suggest either more funeral leave for all employees or those employees that need more funeral leave can either utilize unpaid leave or vacation leave. Hope this helps out. Good Luck!

  • I have thought a bit more about this. Some years ago, I had a VP Boss/Head of HR, Queen mum of the B- - - - world, who characteristically made similar wrong-headed decisions. I have concluded that you are now working for her. O=* I'm posting this against my better judgement, but ya'll know me!
  • I only suggest the five days off for out of state due to travel requirements. We would give three paid days and two excused, unpaid days that way noone will be required to call and ask for extra time off. It has always been company policy to allow extra time off when needed reguardless of where the funeral is. I'm not suggesting out of state funerals automatically qualify for more time.I just think it would be easier to make it known to our employees facing an out of state funeral that they are automatically entitled to two more, unpaid days so they won't have to worry about asking for the additional time off. I'm sure the last thing on their mind is when they need to get back to work. Since this incident I have had a few similar cases. In almost every cases the employee had to call us from wherever they where at to ask for additional time. The only reason I ask about the legal aspect if any is that in this particular case the woman was in a "protected class" and she readily pointed out that noone else was treated the way she was. She never mentioned that she felt it was done for that reason. But the woman was terminated a short time later for a seperate incident (which is now in question). The woman filed a complaint with the EEOC and I personally am worried they might look at this incident as proof of her allegations. AND before you say it the company already consulted an attorney and to make a long story short he feels she will just go away.

    And I hate to say this but it wasn't a turf war between the HR head and the supervisor. The HR head didn't like the woman. She made numerous comments about her that I don't care to share. A few months after the woman was terminated, the head of HR was terminated for "questionable practices" but everyone is tight lipped as to exactly what got her fired. Then a few months after that the manager/director of HR was asked to resign or face termination (again who knows why). I Have taken over head of HR position and one of my job duties was to look over some old personel files to see if I could find errors (I have to basically see if we did anything wrong) and come up with new or improved policies to deter future problems. That is one reason I want to have a very detailed bereavement policy.
  • the company already consulted an attorney and to make a long story short
    >he feels she will just go away.

    I hope he is right, but, I am not nearly as optimistic as your attorney. I also think cleaning up the bereavement policy is the least of your problems. If you're the head of HR and people are being terminated left and right in that department and you have no idea why, that's a bit odd. Best of luck to you. Watch your back.

  • Amen Don! I would be wary of taking on any HR responsibilities in this company without a contract!!!

    Anyway...back to the bereavement policy. We give up to three days paid leave period for employees to take care of arrangements, funerals, etc. It is spelled out what immediate family is. Most employees take at least 3 days for the death of a close family member. If they need more time, it comes out of their PTO banks. As far as requiring employees to prove the death of a family member, it used to be a policy that a copy of the obit had to be submitted to HR. I thought this a bit harsh because, fool that I am, I like to trust people until they give me reason not to. I asked the question of what happens if there is not an obit (some people don't do this). I asked if a picture of the employee standing with the deceased in the coffin would suffice. Folks didn't like this either! Anyway...we just decided not to require proof of death unless someone's mother or father dies two or three times in one year.

    The company usually sends flowers in the case of a death, so it would be easy to find out if someone was trying to cheat the company.
  • I am not just concened about the bereavement policy. The assignment, in part, was to create new policy based on past mistakes. I am very concerned about what is going on around me. I don't want to go down next. The manager/director and the head of HR were terminated within a month of the employee's DOL complaint investigation being concluded. The DOL found in the employee's favor. The only time I ever spoke to the attorney was before the DOL found in her favor and that is when he said she would just go away. I decided a few weeks ago to redo the bereavement policy as ours is very general. It has been almost a year since then and we just recieved a letter saying that the EEOC is now investigating a complaint from this employee (the EEOC sent a copy of her complaint). Some people are still saying she will eventually drop it but if the EEOC finds in her favor I am a bit concerned that I may be next. Does anyone know the process of an EEOC investigation?
  • If I'm paying attention, the employee filed a complaint and the EEOC found in her favor and now a year later you have an additional charge from her and your attorney is the one who said he thought 'she would go away'? I guarantee you she will not go away if this is why two HR people got fired in your department. If you have not gone through an EEOC investigations before, your only safe passage is with an attorney going through it with you. That is the best way we learn what to do, what to furnish, what not to furnish, what to ignore, how to respond, what format to use in the position statements back to EEOC. Not to be unkind to our DOL EEOC investigative brethren; but, they will slit your throat if they can. Never trust one who says "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you." Don't trust one who doesn't say that either. Call the attorney and take this burden off your mind. You should not be saddled with this responsibility at this point in your career.
  • No, I'm sorry if I was unclear. The initial complaint she filed was a complaint against the company in June, 2001 with the Department of Labor (DOL) for violating her right's reguarding FMLA. The DOL found in her favor. She apparently filed another complaint with the EEOC/PHRC (duly filed?) that states she was discriminated against basesd on gender and was retaliated against based on her initial complaint to the DOL and was ultimately terminated due to this in July, 2001. The attorney said back in August, 2001 that she would just go away. I spoke to my supervisor earlier today (who knows little about this) and he said he was aware of the complaint and was advised that the complaint would be dropped. I am not in direct contact with the company attorney, but I would like to know where this whole thing is headed. My boss said he was advised that she only had 180 days to file suit against the company in court so her complaint is pointless. I don't know about filing a suit against the company in court but her complaint to the EEOC/PHRC was filed within the 180 day time limit. I have also heard that the employee has been asking other ex-employees who were on FMLA about their terminations. None of these employee's have filed a complaint but my concern is that this employee will say it was a regular practice to terminate people on FMLA which will make the EEOC want us to turn over all records of our terminations. Will the EEOC ask for records of all terminated employees on FMLA (or who had been on FMLA)?
  • It sounds like the company wants you to perform magic, but hasn't given you the authority to do so. How can you make changes within the HR department if you don't know what the problems are. I would demand to know why the other HR people were terminated. You need to know what these people did wrong so you have a direction to go in. Having you look through individual personnel files to uncover problems could be like looking for a needle in a haystack. If the former HR professionals (I use this term loosely) were doing things wrong, chances are they didn't document their actions.

    Why aren't you talking to the attorney representing the company directly? How can you fix the problem(s) if you don't know what they are. Something is probably getting lost in the translation when you're relying on second hand information being passed on to you from the person who is conversing with the attorney.
  • JPeepler has some great points! Seems to me you are being kept in the dark or at least the dusk. Don't put too much weight in the 180 day rule. The EEOC bends that with regularity in some instances. Also, if you have a state government department mirroring the EEOC process, the time frame expands. Your biggest mistake is to continue to watch the clock hoping she will disappear. Your company got a copy of any EEOC determination that went to the complainant and your copy will show you exactly what the agency told her her rights were and will show any time constraints imposed on her for a suit. If your boss won't produce it, throw your hands up. The EEOC will send you another, but it's ridiculous for your company not to provide it to you in your role. As to your last question, yes, if any arrows point in the direction of an abusive or illegal FMLA general practice, they will likely ask to see any and all files of persons who have been on FMLA for the past (whatever they like) whether or not they were terminated. A last thought; maybe the reason these people are suggesting "she will just go away" is because the EEOC told somebody there or your attorney they were not going to pursue anything since the two staff members were terminated. The mystery remains unsolved. Have you got a fresh resume?

  • I've been reading this whole nasty story, and am wondering where FMLA even fits into the picture. FMLA is for "medical care, etc" for people who are living. This all started with a funeral, correct? So how could you have violated the FMLA rule?
  • You might scroll back up to post number ten which turns the issue a bit toward FMLA. One of the complainant's charges regards FMLA. The EEOC will readily spot a pattern of disparate treatment, a possible FMLA violation, a termination and several other things. Roads that appear to be straight often fork. x:-)
  • Now Don, I KNOW you are only referring to SOME government employees. . not all of us! xO:)

  • Opps, that was my angel that didn't work, and this post goes up with DonD's earlier comment. .
  • No sonny. I was just referring to that particular DOL Division, not all government employees. Don't forget; I were wun for years. x:-)
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 08-22-02 AT 05:37PM (CST)[/font][p][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 08-22-02 AT 02:36 PM (CST)[/font]

    Sonny, I will try to explain in brief. The employee in question signed up for FMLA in March, 2001 for a pregnancy. I didn't begin working for this company until May, 2001 so I don't know much about that. In mid June the Head of HR said I was to write the employee up for attendance, which I did. The employee claimed her absences were covered under FMLA and the only other time she missed was when her Grandfather died and she claimed that was also to be excused because the employee handbook stated that extra excused time could be granted through her supervisor. The employee went to her supervisor the next day and said if we didn't remove the write-up she was going to file a complaint with the DOL because all but one absence (FUNERAL) was covered under FMLA. Our company policy says three unexcused absences results in a write-up. My boss told me to have a meeting with her and explain to her that she wasn't on FMLA, her write-up would stand and that she had five days to get the FMLA paperwork filled out or she would be terminated. So I did. She came in later that week with the forms and when my boss saw that it said she needed intermittent leave, she told me to tell her it was filled out incorrectly and would need to be filled out again. It was at that meeting that the employee said she had actually filed a complaint with the DOL for violating FMLA guidelines. I left the meeting at that point to advise my boss as to what the employee stated. It was then that my boss came in and told the employee that she had three days to bring in all the funeral information or she would be terminated. After that meeting my boss said I needed to call her doctor and tell the doctor that the employee needed to be on full FMLA leave. The doctor told me that she had already filled out the papers twice and that she would not fill them out a third time as she felt that they already contained the correct information. I advised the employee at a later meeting (on my boss's behalf) that the paperwork needed to be filled out by her next doctor's appointment which gave her almost two weeks or she would be termination. The employee was terminated by me about a week later for something that had nothing to do with this. My boss wrote the termination letter but she didn't want to sit in on the termination. So everything that was done, was done on my bosses say so, I just carried out the meetings. The DOL ruled in the employee's favor on her complaint that we violated her rights to FMLA. They never really looked into her termination. She has since filed a complaint with the EEOC which we just learned about recently that says the employee claims she was discriminated against based on her gender and that we retaliated against her because she filed a complaint with the DOL, which she claims was the real reason for her termination.

    Now, I knew the situation behind the employee's termination and we terminated her based on information that a supervisor gave us. The supervisor that made the inital accusations against her at first said that he witnessed something but when asked by the DOL investigator about what he saw he changed his story to he "assumed" that was what she was doing. He has since signed an affidavit saying that he actually witnessed the offense. I honestly think her termination was based on that offense. I feel we acted on the information we had and terminated her for good cause. I see DonD and Sonny, that you worked for the government. Should we worry that even though we terminated for good reason, that the EEOC will still find in her favor?

    I also have one other question. In her complaint there is an N-5 form that says check any reason that you believe this organization treated you this way. She checked sex, retaliation and non-job related handicap/disability: complicated pregnancy. The employee's doctor called me a few days before her termination to advise the company that the employee's unborn child had a birth defect (not that the employee had a disability) that would require close monitoring. We discussed what the employee needed to do as far as testing and that she may need to miss work for these tests. I asked at that time if full FMLA was needed and she said the employee could continue working but that because the employee had to go to a larger hospital she would not be able to schedule the appointments around work. I agreed that the child's health was first and foremost. A few days later I was told by my boss to terminate her based on the information the supervisor gave us. My boss told me to call her in an hour before the employee's shift and tell her we needed to discuss FMLA issues. The employee's mother called a few hours later and spoke with me in some detail about her daughter's unborn baby's condition and asked, if we were going to fire her daughter that day, to let her know so she could come pick her up. I transfered the call to my boss. A few minutes later my boss said to terminate the employee and ask her before she left if she wanted us to call her mother. She said it was the employee's choice to get a ride. It wasn't our job to be a "taxi service".

    I went to my supervisor's boss and asked how to conduct the termination and he reiterated that the employee was to be terminated as my boss saw fit. When I asked about the implications of her baby's condition he said we had no knowledge of any defects. When I came out of the meeting my boss said that the baby's supposed defects had nothing to do with the termination and that as far as she was concerned there was nothing wrong with the employee's baby and that it was nothing more than a ploy to try to save the employee's job. My boss also said the employee should feel lucky because the company was still going to offer COBRA even though the employee didn't deserve it. When I asked about the investigation into the allegations, my boss said the only two people involved were the supervisor and the employee. She went on to say that when something happend where only one person witnessed the offense we have to believe the witness because the other person has a reason to lie (in case you are wondering, I already changed the investigation policy). My actions were based solely on what my boss relayed to me. I acted in good faith that we were doing what was best for the company. I have decided that it would be in my best interest to part with this company, but jobs in my expertise are not readily available in this area. Will I have to tell the EEOC everthing I know (even if it's not documented)? I don't want to be personally liable for anything since I acted on the behalf of others.


  • Our bereavement policy is three days for immediate family (and it is spelled out who is immediate family) and one day for any other family member. If the employee needs additional time, he/she may use personal or vacation time. Of course, whatever additional time is requested needs to be approved by the employee's immediate supervisor. So far, this has worked out well.
  • One of the disadvantages of being in California is that when I sign on in the morning half the work day of over in other places and all the best discussion points have already taken place. I can't add anything to this messy story, other than to reiterate that won't be able to do your job if you don't know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about how this company works.
  • Sounds to me like you should cut your losses and start looking for a company that's on more stable ground.
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